Ok so suppose this is some seemingly normalish apolitical gamer kid that was foolishly taught to solve problems with guns. Kirk was blanket targetting people he cared about and took action to do something about it.
This is the MO of some guy who’s like neighbors are like threatening their wife. Its not a good solution but if the cops won’t help folks being threatened its what people do.
The same day a right wing trump gooner killed a bunch of kids in colorado. Its crazy that the media is all lockstep in whitewashing charlie kirk like this to explicitly go after people fully unrelated to the shootings.
I’m just still mad Charlie Kirk is getting this much attention and the conservatives haven’t bat an eye to the children shot. I’m still mad the conservatives are the ones always advocating for guns and now that the conservatives have been attacked with a gun they say the left are the dangerous ones, even when the left are the ones who have been saying for years now the guns are out of hand.
This is coming from someone raised in a white conservative christian mom and dad household. They were always hoping for the end of the world or some sort of zombie apocalypse just so they could fully disconnect from the rest of the world and use their guns. When the left was pushing for better gun laws I always heard my parents outraged and saying “they will have to pry my guns out of my cold dead hands” - it’s no wonder I’m a leftist as an adult now. P.S. my parents were also fully on board that the sandy hook shooting was fake and it was all “fake actors” that’s all they think when it’s innocent children getting shot. But when it’s Charlie Kirk then they’re mad and it’s all the lefts fault.
I feel validated in an opinion I have had for ages : that in all the talk about 2nd Amendment rights Americans do guns are nothing but a security blanket they clutch to make them feel like Democracy will be saved or be maintained as long as they clutch their emotional support weapon. They will watch rights be stripped from them, their neighbours carted off in wagons and none of them will shoot even if they have the weapon on their person while this is happening. They will protest, they will write and verbalize their dissent and they will appeal to authority and band together democratically but the ownership of the weapons themselves are useless. Realistically if someone from the government comes for them they will likely go quietly because no one is coming to save them. At that point it’s basically over. The system is too big to fight.
The real resistance is in numbers not armaments. It doesn’t matter what you are wielding if you have solidarity and organization and the bravery to misbehave. Resistance can be in attacking the gears that make things run by not doing your job or doing it poorly. Refusing to comply in a multitude of ways like sending things to the wrong place or making ‘mistakes’ that cost time and effort to fix. A government can only force compliance so much and at the end of the day runs on good faith. Guns are a distraction to jingle in your face so you stay isolated. Building walls between you and other humans with dreams you will defend your own little fort against the tides of tyranny.
Its also the guns are only there to like shoot homeless people and kids apparently?
This is why Kirk was such a nutjob. He admitted the guns are just to kill kids but said it was worth it because insecure adults could still have their snuggy boomboom.
“I am still okay my love…”
Does anyone his age write like that?
Honestly, this isn’t far off how I texted at his age. I’ve seen a lot of skepticism of the texts, but I don’t find them hard to believe from someone with his background, disposition, and test scores.
Possibly, especially a lot of weird conservative kids who don’t fully understand how relationships work. But really it’s not a huge deal.
And I think that’s what scares the right even more. He was “normal” by their standards. Not a loner, accepted by his family, hobbies, Christian background, went to trade school, solidly middle-class family, white, cis. If you’ve effed up the system so much that this “normal” guy can do something like this then that’s scary. Que “are we the baddies” gif.
He wasn’t though? He was seriously deep into 4chan and meme culture. He wasn’t “normal” except on the surface.
That’s why I use the quotation marks. Boomer conservatives don’t understand that 4chan meme culture. They see a good ol’ boy with a proper upbringing.
They will continue to try to turn the dude trans. Simple fact is that kirk didn’t hate enough people and died for it. They once again are trying to cloud the truth and make up anything they can to promote their agenda of hate.
This is what a “slow pivot” looks like. Kirk’s killer didn’t turn out to be the gay, trans, rainbow polar bear the news was hoping for and did their hardest to promote.
The obvious “tidy narrative” is that the son of two Trump supporters, living in an ultra conservative state just might be a conservative himself.
Taking politics (mostly) out of it -
Luigi allegedly killed because he saw injustice and had empathy for other people, wanted to show the evils of health insurance companies.
This kid imo allegedly killed because he loved someone CK was spouting hateful narratives about. His empathy for this person he loved, and people like them who are just normal people living life, made it easy for him to turn to guns when he wanted this person gone for eternity.
People with empathy are snapping.
Didn’t CK say empathy was a bad thing?
The ultra Christians now say empathy is a sin.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/sin-empathy-christian-trump-vance-b2812330.html
*Very specific right wing mostly non-denominational Christians are saying this. Most Christians will think that’s an insane claim to make as most denominations dont hold that view
Their central religious figure is literally God’s empathy taking on a human form. He empathized with the human experience to the point of experiencing a human death.
Amazing how people can be so bad at understanding their own religion.
Yes he did. The whole MAGA movement believes empathy is a bad thing.
Technically speaking they aren’t wrong ; empathy is a bad thing for MAGA. One could say antithetical.
People with empathy are snapping.
This line hits hard. I hate this fucking timeline.
This is what the MAGAs don’t understand since MAGA requires, and trains, people to be Sociopaths.
An empathetic person will avoid violence for as long as possible, but when the forces against them become too great, and they snap, their empathy morphs into Protection Mode, and anyone who has people in their life that they protect, knows how dangerous Protection Mode can be.
I’ve been identifying my personal Red Lines, and one of the biggest is certain people in my life who are members of vulnerable demographics that MAGAs particularly despise. If anything were to happen to those people, I would become very dangerous. My empathy for them could easily be twisted into revenge against MAGA.
anyone who has people in their life that they protect, knows how dangerous Protection Mode can be.
And if you don’t, just ask a mama lion protecting her cubs…
This is my personal conclusion about this situation because in my personal life people with empathy are drowning right now. It’s hard to live life these days if you give a single fuck about anything real, any real injustices or struggles people are living.
But this doesn’t fit the other narrative that they have been talking about… which is him hating the guy for not being right enough or whatever you want to call it…
Yes, that’s why I took the politics out of it. Empathy can make you hate people enough to kill them if you see them hurting people you love. I think it’s been proven his house mate / partner is a trans person and they were romantically involved.
CK was sitting, sharing the hateful transphobic ideals he had the actual second he was murdered. Looking into this guy, he wasn’t a MAGA and he wasn’t a leftist. He wasn’t extreme politically and that’s precisely the medias / MAGAs problem : he was just a seemingly average dude who snapped because of the hatred and torment he witnessed from CK.
It’s only this political imo because he killed DT’s pet pig and they’re of course going to use that as FUD. I think the truth is probably that he would have killed CK regardless of who CK aligned with politically.
Planted chats. Full of boomer speak. It’s not even chatgpt. Just.traight boomer speak.
Good, fuck using fancy LLMs to generate text, just write the fucking words yourself!
None of us know anything for certain, but I sure get the sense that this kid is a patsy. I’m inclined to dismiss everything the authorities and the media are saying about him. It all sounds like incongruent nonsense. My fingers are crossed that we actually get to hear him speak before the powers that be murder him.
The “text” messages seem really weird, like someone who is like 40+ tried writing like a much younger person…
Everything seems to add up in just this perfectly awkward way…
And this is my crazy ass thoughts: I’m not even sure the dude is real, or his family is, i have not seen an actual interview from these people who keep saying all these things… is it just a bunch of Ai bullshit? Part of a Cover up?
100%, that text message chain is ridiculous. The entire official doesn’t make any sense. Just seems like they are trying to pin the whole thing onto a ‘lone shooter’ and quickly move on. And then politicians are trying to capitalize on the death to push through whatever agenda they are already trying to push through, it’s disgusting and embarrassing.
They have video of the dude just standing and it’s weird… stay away from the comments… it’s either bots or clearly the mind control is working… it’s deranged
Weird, I don’t know. It certainly looks odd to me. I’m leaning towards the ‘neck wound was an exit wound’ theory, which throws out this entire rooftop sniper narrative and put the shooter somewhere behind and to the right of Kirk. Again, I really have no idea but anyone pushing this left/right bullshit is just trying to get people divided.
Probably hit his artery… which is why it was a lot of blood so fast…
Why would they have a patsy who doesn’t fit the narrative they want? That makes no sense
I think what “they” want is confusion.
People want a good weapon they can use to hurt others. But the store only has a human shaped tool. How can we swing that at others?
Please, I just need a “he was a groyper.” The guy behind me wants a “he was trans.”
The more ergonomic the concept the better. Don’t tell me it’s complex or untidy. What’s the point of being trained by the media? I have all these patterns… just fit the guy into one already.
What about the tidy narrative of raised in a conservative home with early and easy access to guns?
There haven’t been many shooters that weren’t around right wingers and guns at home, wherever their supposed personal ideologies became.
Also Mormon and Groyper
The federal conclusion will inevitably be that he was a so-called nihilist violent extremist (NVE)
That is a lot of confidence in the administration to let law enforcement do its job properly and not politicize the findings.
Of course he fits into a tidy narrative: whatever one the right wants. Clearly he’s trans, trans-adjacent, trans-influenced, trans-atlanic who did a bad because the social contagion eroding the social fabric of western (read: cis straight white male-dominated christian) civilization. We knew these facts before Kirk’s body hit the floor.
The rest of the “details” like, reality and evidence or whatever, doesn’t really matter.
He is whatever will make their base ignore further and deeper encroachments in to their, and everyone American’s, rights.
What are you trying to say?
Do you actually believe that 22 year olds talk like this? They’ve been trying to push a narrative since the bullet was fucking fired.
They want to make this into a martyrdom. They are going to force the story to match.
I can believe 22 year olds talk like this, by these newer accounts he seemed very normal, likeable and intelligent.
But I also think there is a concerted effort to twist the narrative every which way, to emphasize the more extreme elements and mischaracterize the mundane elements as extreme. I don’t think we will know what happened for sure, for a long time.
To me, the evaluation that he was sort of apolitical is the most baffling explanation. That he was closeted bi and in a relationship with a trans or transitioning woman carries a lot of baggage when viewed by right wing hate movements who control vast parts of the government and media. But to me and probably you, this is just sort of normal for his generation. Based on that, even if he was a groyper, we won’t know until we hear it from him, which we won’t until after the trial. The right is too invested in hushing that part up, as I think you’re alluding to.
But I don’t think we are to the point of total show trials and completely fabricated evidence at the level of a court document, which itself would have to be backed by verifiable evidence. I have no doubt that facts were being massaged to fit the rights narrative, but it appears the roommate was rightfully horrified by Robinson’s actions and cooperated with police, by all verifiable accounts.
I think we need to be very careful with how we perceive news as its coming in. I’m fortunate to have many people and orgs in my life where I can have detailed, deep, probing discussions about current events, because without those people I would be a stark raving lunatic right now. The conspiracy mindset seeps into every bit of my thinking, because we know there are actual conspiracies happening! We just don’t know the specific content or subject of them which leads to wild speculation.
There is a period in the news cycle that I call “fog of war” where you literally can’t see what is actually happening. Its usually better for ourselves and others if we reserve final judgement for when the facts are mostly all in.
They literally claimed that the “TRNS” marking on the bullet from the manufacturer was “trans ideology.”
Do we have any evidence that they were romantically involved with the “transgender roommate” or that that person was trans at all? I thought he was living with his family?
We are at the point where they are just making shit up. We know for a fact that they hired people to go through the Epstein files and remove Trump’s name. They used photoshopped pictures to claim Kilmer Garcia was a gang member. They slaughtered 11 people on a boat with no evidence that they were drug smugglers.
It is time to be fucking conspiratorial. We have a president who openly wants to be a dictator. We have an entire right wing grifter sphere that claims every single mass shooter is trans, as it fucking happens.
Stop giving charity to Patel and this administration.
Ken Klippenstein verified some of these details in his interviews and research https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/exclusive-leaked-messages-from-charlie
You do realize that just believing the opposite of what your enemy says is not engaging in factual analysis right? Our enemies can, and do, twist their narratives in many ways in order to obscure facts by encouraging tribalist, campist justification in their enemies (us.)
I don’t see any messages in that post that confirm the dialogue I posted.
My reading of what you said was that there was no basis for Robinson’s relationship to a trans person. you know damn well I can’t account for those lines as they come from court documents.
Retreating to a specificity in a disagreement is not a way to make yourself right, its a way to make me wrong. If I want to, I can retreat to some generality where I feel right and you appear to be wrong. This is exactly the kind of campist reasoning I try to avoid in good faith.
My whole point was to caution against conspiratorial thinking, which is something i admit I also get caught up in very easily. I acknowledge that a fight has its own logic, and that logic does not always lead to the discovery of fact, but can deepen misunderstanding. You clearly disagree with me which is fine. I’m not trying to give you a lecture or give the right a pass. I fight the right every day in my communities through political organizing, others oppose the right in different ways. We need all hands on deck, pulling the same direction to reverse the momentum of forces organized against us.
I’m trying to caution someone who I view as an ally not to fall into a trap. You try to characterize me as an enemy because I ask you to show caution. I am not your enemy. This is exactly how the people in power motivate narratives in order to divide regular people so we can’t fight them together.
But I promise you, being a conspiratorial crank will not win people over to our side. That’s why I try to resist it in myself and urge caution in others. But you do you, I’m not the thought cops.
Here’s my tidy narrative: he was raised in MAGA family, was poorly educated and had a lot of exposure to extremists positions but little exposure to critical thinking. When he finally was exposed to different ideology at college he wasn’t able to process is correctly and reacted violently, as he was taught to do by his conservative upbringing.
Guy went to college for one semester of virtual classes, and that was enough to radicalize him!? I want whatever you are smoking.
I think you didn’t go even for one semester because if you did, you would understand what I wrote.
That’s not a narrative though. A narrative is when he is clearly on team A or team B for a handful of cherry picked reasons that reduce his psychology to a caricature.
Coming in here with this sensible straight talking shit… Why I oughta …
A narrative is a story, whether fictional or not.
