Bob Fosse has been insanely influential on pop culture in general.
Even that scene in The Birdcage!
Which one?
I mean, all of them, really. 😋 Specifically, though? Yeah, that one 👇🏼 😉
Hunh. YT’s gettin’ ornery w/ its trace tails —on first glance, I thought that link ended with “?t=65&is=FuckOff” 🤣
It’s not; I put that there purposely.
Wait, can you make it say anything after the ? mark?
Yep!
It probably still works as a tracker anyway connecting people that opened with that string. The only difference being that the creator of the link isn’t known.
Why isn’t it checking your filesystem though?
The movie Sweet Charity is a great reference.
Sweet Charity was one of the most formative movies in my childhood. For me.
Barbara Bouchet and Suzanne Charny will do that I suppose.
Cool find!
“Heavily influenced”
“slightly modified”
Thats so fucking cool!!!
MJ: “you know, I’m something of a snake in the grass myself”
Considering the thematic overlaps between said character portrayed and MJ’s off-stage history IRL… 🥲
Are you implying that Michael Jackson was a pedophile? Because that has been pretty much proven to be completely false. Like with overwhelming absence of evidence.
If such things as truth and justice matter to you at all of course. Maybe you said this just for the lulz.
I saw this meme pop up on reddit, and it’s reposted here and follows the same disgusting trajectory here. “Oh look MJ stole!” No he didn’t, he credited Bob Fosse who admired MJ for being an amazing dancer and perfecting this style.
“Oh look it’s a snake and a child, get it? get it?” - no he was innocent and framed by the media and racist prosecutors and people seeking money.
I’m so sick how stupid evil will always triumph over justice and truth because it is so relentless and “so yummy” and “fun” to spew this shit. People have learned nothing today from OP except reinforcing the lies.
ffs. 🤦🏼♂️ I’m so sick of redderped and frothy idiots squirming into the fediverse.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say but the evidence is all there: https://themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.wordpress.com/
If you haven’t actually looked at the evidence (or absence of it) then you can keep your mouth shut you know?
I’m just sick of the systematic racism. It’s been decades of proven false accusations and media failure.
Oh cool, so not only was he forgiven for being a pedophile but his entire image was a ripoff
I stopped listening to his music in the 90s when the accusations came out. But I’ve spent a lot of time seperatijg the tabloid smears, the false or unlikely allegations from his own story. I’m convinced he was destroyed for his money.
We should enjoy his music and his legacy. And I say that as a victim myself.
Did you watch “Leaving Neverland”?
Not the one you replied to, but I did, and it was very hard to dismiss. I still don’t think I have, completely. Maybe I should, logically, but emotionally it was hard to let go. Still conflicted about it, because the conspiracy against Michael scenario is just as probable.
I read the transcript. I was almost convinced until the discrepancies emerged later.
You read the transcript of a 90 minute movie?
Others’re bound to accomplish what you’d rather not.
Not . . . watch the movie? That would seem to be the most complete way to absorb the information. But sure, finding and reading the transcript instead of watching it is something i’d rather not.
I notice the first link to a transcript search is the Michael Jackson Innocence project. So - look, if anyone hasn’t just watch it. It’s a better experience than this:
I disagree, based on the simple fact that transcripts aren’t often as full of visual trickery, etc. as their video/film products —and not just because “little lies” are essential to the latters’ very creation. ☝🏼
The video is a lot longer than 90 minutes. The transcript is around 100 pages. The language is simple so you’d read it in an evening.
But you’re missing the sound and visuals. That informs the context. Plus the transcript is auto-generated. Why read it but not watch it?
And yes, you’re right, both episodes together are 236 minutes total.
Generally, I think the video format is responsible for a lot of disinformation getting swallowed wholesale. The people I know who fall for disinformation get it from videos. They usually have no other sources than themselves, nobody to challenge in the video itself, and it’s very difficult to reference parts of the video for critical discussion. It’s the perfect medium for a Gish gallop.
So I read it because I didn’t want to take in information passively. 4-hours is too much information to process critically in one go. It’s easy to watch that and be led to the conclusion the producers want with cut scenes, music choices, etc. After hearing so many falsehoods and retractions, I wanted to digest it properly.
The word “documentary” does not mean truth. In some cases it means a completely unchallenged and biased narrative led to deceive, such as the documentary Vaxxed, which was also promoted by a massive platform when it came out. It’s hard to put the genie back in the bottle after something like that.
I’m not necessarily judging the individuals in the video. If they have a case, it was badly represented by a documentary that did not check some facts that are essential to their core claims. Their director is also very odd. Regardless of what happened, to say Jackson was “worse than Epstein” is just not something a thinking person would say in an age where those victims are also trying to get justice.
Are you going to explain what specific audiovisual component might, if seen, lead someone to conclude that Michael Jackson shouldn’t have been acquitted? Or is this just some vague allusion to nonexistent super-important context that invalidates all the legal proceedings so you don’t have to actually make a solid case for your accusation?
Just for Billie Jean, not his entire image.
thafuq? Is that the only song of his you know? That dance style was integral to much of his whole thing, and permeated his own style from very early on. 🤙🏼
You’ve been fooled by propaganda.
His image was attacked and destroyed because he wouldn’t sell his music catalog.
He slept in the bed with children that werent his own and were obsessed with them. Its not a thing a normal adult does.
100% he was not normal and was abused his whole life. Whether he was fondling anyone or not, we’ll never know for certain, but none of those kids should have been allowed to do that just to leave a safety margin.
It’s not impossible that he became a rich target for extortion, but he was off enough that it would def have been grounds for pedo like restraining orders.
Oh yeah, totally normal for a bunch of different children to accuse him of sexual abuse. I’m glad people believed me when I told them what my uncle did. I’d be a whole lot more fucked up if people didn’t take me seriously…and guess what, I’m still pretty screwed up from it.
I’ve seen an interview with someone who was offered money by those trashy British tabloids to concoct a story. They told the “journalist” that nothing improper had happened and the journalist told them that if they decided to change their story, there would be good money in it.
My point is, there was a lot of money and other infrastructure making allegations very attractive to fabricate.
Then there’s the actual FBI and parents who have been trying to concoct stories about him, while apparently they have protected actual pedophiles such as Epstein. Here’s one account of that (90 second clip): https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=O9hesItLnuk&ra=m
So you didn’t find it weird that the young kid Michael showcased on stage slept in the same bed as Michael in the hotels, while his family was given a room at the other end of the hotel. It seems super inappropriate, but besides Michael I also blame the parents … because you don’t let your kids sleep in a hotel room with a grown man. Even if he was famous.
Yes, I find that wholly inappropriate.
There’s a lot more than one inappropriate thing. A lot more.
No link or citation is bold for such a take. Not heard it before now.
How exactly is anything about this post “forgiving Michael Jackson”?
There is literally no proof he was a pedophile.
No proof except multiple eyewitness / victim testimony and a mountain of corroborating evidence. Like Epstein. Or trump.
The relevant Wikipedia page coalates the mountain of all the evidence related- I hadn’t read it till recently when someone linked it and I really have no stake in this, I don’t really care about mj, but the evidence really doest point to him being a pedophile.
It points to him having an unhealthy and innapropriate relationship with children and the idea of childhood. But theres honestly a really big gap between what it points to and being a pedophile who has sex with children
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Michael_Jackson_sexual_abuse_allegations?wprov=sfla1
Just watch “Leaving Neverland”. It’s spelled out very plainly.
Just watch the music video to " Smooth Criminal". Absolute masterpiece.
Cinema is not a valid reference source, even “documentaries” aren’t required to be 100% true.
FFS, even penguins were propagandized for generations before the public was allowed to learn that they’re ridiculously homocidal rapists, etc. 🤷🏼♂️ The latter came from the field journals penned during the first excursion through their territories, way back when. The cover up that swiftly followed said expedition’s report was bankrolled by the running class & its academic policy makers.
Neither is Wikipedia. It’s even less trustworthy outside of America because of the strong bias toward the US narrative. But fuck all of you that defend the child molester Michael Jackson. May you never know what if felt like for all his victims. No, sleeping in the same bed with minors and having them be in underwear is not appropriate and is paedophilia. So fuck you .
Not accounting for the international conspiracy to cover up penguin behavior characteristics, the film interviews two men who wereboys at the time as well as their family, friends, and archival materials.
Eyewitness testimony is legally valid, and it’s hard to imagine two different people had the same story, but the other - 50? 100? kids didn’t.
The film says it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and demands the bloody underwear be retrieved out of the trash before the cops find it like a duck.
He was phenomenally talented, there’s no doubt. But very troubled as well, and part of that was sexualizing young boys.
“Legal” ≠ “factually correct”, though. ☝🏼
Again, you seem to be founding a lot on outdated and/or debunked views/methods like eyewitness testimony, and I’m hoping you take your experience from this thread to make some changes, fellow pleb. 🙇🏼♂️
Documentaries do not exactly have the best track record when it comes to choosing between accuracy vs the more salacious story, I think a documentary is uniquely poorly suited to being a meaningful source on this subject in my eyes 😅
Ideally we would collect ALL primary sources and defer exclusively to what those primary sources say, but thats not exactly feasible for us to do.
On Wikipedia, subjects with very high visibility and interest tend to mean that people must be able to make a strong case for the information that makes it into the article. On a platform like Wikipedia, that means you need primary sources, meaningful evidence, to support what gets to be written when everyone has a strong opinion. If we’re to take a single tertiary/secondary source collating information to be a useful indicator, I think Wikipedia is, in kind of the opposite fashion, uniquely well suited to presenting an understanding of what happened
And the extraordinarily long article on Wikipedia doesnt suport the idea that he wanted to have sex with children. It points to him wanting very badly to vicariously experience the innocence of youth that he never got to, in a similar way to how some parents want to vicariously experience the accolades or ability of their child (mothers putting their child through pageants, fathers caring too much about their kid’s victory in sports). And I don’t think that’s a healthy thing to do to a child- it mirror grooming and normalizes that as a way for a relationship with an adult to look, and that is potentially extremely damaging. But the evidence doesnt really support the idea he wanted to have sex with children.
People also came out saying their parents were money hungry cunts who wanted a piece of the pie. THEY were okay to let their kids sleepover at a complete strangers home, but no one blames them skmehow.
Lots of people blame them. I blame them. They blame them. They said so, on camera, with examples of how they failed. One of which was getting financial rewards for looking the other way.
multiple eyewitness / victim testimony
All of whom have since either quietly retracted their testimony and/or admitted they lied.
a mountain of corroborating evidence
A false accusation can’t be corroborated
Like Epstein. Or trump.
Are you this mad about them too? Or do you only pick on the easy targets to make yourself feel big?
All of whom have since either quietly retracted their testimony and/or admitted they lied.
That’s not true.
Are you this mad about them too?
Madder, fwiw. Trump’s dancing is awful.
Most of whom
Better? Now it’s accurate.
You’d have to quantify them, which is difficult as many did not come forward.
Ah, I wasn’t aware that unsubstantiated claims were given that much latitude in your argument —though, I could’ve guessed. 😅
I like how he thinks that just mentioning Epstein and Trump, when talking about pedos, makes him right.
You do? Weird.
There was also no proof my uncle raped me. But, guess what, he did.
I’ll assume You’re joking, because that would be the worst argument ever made.
Why on earth would anybody joke about that?
You’re right, but there’s way too much MJ dick riding in the world for it to ever be a popular thing to say.
Yeah, because you being wrong simply isn’t possible.
Not in this case, pedophilic billionaire dickrider.
He’s probably too old for that.
Still, just alive enough for them, though.
professorchangsquinting.gif
Whole lot of pedophile and billionaire apologia in these comments from the Lemmycel crowd.
Ugh, is this a standard Lemmy comment or something. Whole lot of these hypocrite comments in .world, please just cut the crap outside of that instance.
Go take a walk. Enjoy nature or something.
Gotta feed the wildlife somehow.
I’ve seen what makes you cheer, Epstein trash.
Oh, hey, thanks for letting me know about one more armchair expert to block here. Aww.
Won’t redderp take you back, kiddo? 🙏🏼🙄😝
Wonder where Bob Fosse got it? A combination of previous performers or something completely original, which is rare.
Bob Fosse was amazing, I am sure it was original with him.
I’d put some money on Jim Crow. Look up some of the symbolism Childish Gambino used in This is America.
Fred Astaire, probably.
Removed by mod
Uh are you just going straight full on racist…?
Check their profile, they are. They’re a troll fishing for downvotes.
Fishing for downvotes on a site that doesn’t even keep track of your votes. Truly the dumbest troll.
Glad a mod decided to remove every single one of their comments.
Wait is the little prince popular in US too?
Not realy.
I never heard of it til I watched the 2015 animated movie. Was decent iirc.
I didn’t hear of it until there was an event in Sky Children of the Light.
interesting. i misread that and thought you were referencing Child of Light, it has one of my favorite all time songs on the soundtrack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsvAyEyi9Fg
No, not at all
I used to watch a cartoon as a kid in the late 80s, in the US. This moon is far bigger than on the show.
Generally, only when one is in middle school and learning French, IME. 😅
version with music?
Stolen by a smooth criminal
seing the original compared to the 30s highlight, I understand the saying: " great artist steal": MJ took 5 move in a whole 2min routine, and stole them. Another artist would have just copied the whole routine. I would never think about choosing those 5 move seing the movie. I wouldnt realise they were the best moves. It tool a MJ to get them and make them pop
Same argument for sampling vinyl.
Cue the pedophile threadjack.
Every time that happens I’m reminded of the saying, “You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into”.
Yeah, reason didn’t get you here, reason won’t get you out.
Was he ever convicted of anything?
No. On the other hand, you don’t pay $15 to $25 million for no reason.
Well, one reason might be that he’s had enough of being dragged through the courts?
Ok. You don’t get dragged through the courts for no reason.
Of course you do!
For example: Kevin Spacey was accused of A LOT of heinous shit and in at least one case the charges were so ridiculous that HE got awarded recompense by the court.
Then you have THIS. Just in 2010s you have 28 cases of people wrongfully convicted (convicted - they went to prison while being innocent)!
Pretty sure Spacey is also guilty.
He was deemed not guilty in every single court case that wasn’t thrown out, and the majority of the cases were thrown out.
Considering Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein were convicted at roughly the same time, and how both of them had much higher wealth/influence than Spacey, there’s a high chance that Spacey is actually innocent if he went free.
Yup, no innocent person has ever been to court.
Big difference here. MJ paid NOT to go to court.
No innocent person has ever not wanted to go to court, due to the fear of miscarriage of justice or the perception of people like Knock_knock_Lemmy_in.
We was not. And he’s been defended by some of the kids too.
