• frobeniusnorm@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Ruling Javascript and Python programmers out would be more sane imho. Java sucks, but at least its typed and doesn’t implement weird semantics.

    • anton@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      Had to work with a python programer on a small java project (in uni). I passed some (handcrafted) strings in an Optional to be explicit an first thing he does is check whether they are empty (sending on empty strings would not have been problematic). Also he had compilation errors on his branch that lasted over a week. What python does to someone.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        That guy was shitty at Python, then. Python is all about EAFP instead of LBYL.

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            “Easier to Ask Forgiveness than Permission” vs. “Look Before You Leap.”

            In other words, in Python you should just write the code to do the thing and then put an exception handler at the bottom instead of cluttering up your function with guard code everywhere.

      • Elderos@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I worked under a self-proclamed Python/JavaScript programmer, and part of the job involved doing rather advanced stuff in various other typed languages like c# and c++. It was hell. The code review were hell. For every little tiny weenie little things we had to go through “why coding c++ like it is python” is a very bad idea.

        What is crazy about developers who exclusively work with scripting languages is that they have no conception of why general good practices exist, and they often will make up their own rules based on their own quirks. In my previous example, the developer in question was the author of a codebase that was in literal development hell, but he was adamant on not changing his ways. I’d definitely be wary of hiring someone who exclusively worked with scripting language, and sometime it is less work to train someone who is a blank slate rather than try to deprogram years of bad habits.

        • naught@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Are you referring to Python and JS as scripting languages? The two most popular languages on the planet? Ones which are capable of building almost any kind of app imaginable? Surely you don’t apply your limited experience with a single dev to a group of millions of developers doing extremely varied things, right?

          • Elderos@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Python and Js are by definition scripting languages in the classical sense. I am not using the term in a derogatory way and I myself learnt programming this way as a 90s kid. No offense but I think you took my comment way too personal.

            • naught@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              What is the “classical” sense? What are you implying when you say they are “scripting” languages? What you are imparting to me is that they are less-than other, real languages. I don’t take personal offense, but I do take issue with the mischaracterization and implication that those languages are somehow less serious or less broadly useful.

              No hard feelins! (:

          • Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            Kinda sounds like they’re adamant about not changing their ways in response to things not working as they expect.

        • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I’d change this slightly - the problem isn’t exclusively working in scripting languages, but dynamically typed ones. There are people who write great code in Python (with typing) and in Typescript, and they usually can work well in other languages too. But people who don’t type their programs are in my experience simply bad developers, the way you describe.

            • FooBarrington@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Ah, good!

              I feel like there is a fundamental difference between developers with a data-centric perspective, and a function-centric perspective.

              The function-centric one is about adding functionality, and it’s what developers start out with. You have functions that do things, and if requirements change or the thing should be re-used - no problem, I can quickly add a new toggle parameter here or bolt it on over there. I’ll be done in 5 minutes, no problem!

              Then, over time, you learn that functionality isn’t that interesting or difficult. Instead, the hard parts are the ones concerning the flow of data through your application. What do I know about the shape of my data in this part of my application? What can I be sure of regarding invariants over there? This forces you to build modular software without interdependencies, because - in the end - you just build a library that has small adapters to the outside world.

              I like scripting languages a lot, but it’s way too easy to become “good” at that style of programming, and the better you get at it, the harder it will be to actually move forward to a data-centric perspective. It’s a local maximum that can trap people, sometimes for their whole career. That’s why I try to look at typing experience when evaluating candidates for positions.