Huh? What center are we talking about? Democrats are left of Republicans (marginally before Trump, but still) but the center of office holders is a pointless measure. Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
but the center of office holders is a pointless measure
da fuq? It’s the definition of “center”. It’s the literal way we measure political leanings.
Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
One problem is that when it comes to individual issues, Americans are fairly to the left of Democrats. But when it comes to politicians or broad policies, Americans are to the RIGHT of Democrats. The American voting population is stupid, and they don’t consider individual issues (and in most cases, never vote on them via ballot measures etc). Also, a lot of policies are given the broad label of “reform”, and Americans have very different ideas of what “reform” means. “Immigration reform” could mean anything from an open border policy to immediate execution of any illegal immigrants. Most Americans support “reform” though.
So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing? No, the center of office holders is not how we measure political leanings. You can go with political theory that defines left and right in a pretty fixed way, or you can go by the center of the population. By either of those standards, the Democrats are moderate right wing.
There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans. They are just flawed humans, and there is a reason for the mismatch between where they fall on issues and where they fall on (let’s call them) themes. The themes come from the narratives they receive from our two right wing parties. Ask them about particular issues and they think like individuals. Ask them about themes and they line up with the narratives coming to them from our two right wing parties.
So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing?
Yes. There’s no universal human left vs right. Political ideologies change over time and place. The far left wing in the Taliban is roughly similar to the far right wing in America.
There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans.
Damn. So, no right wing government exists or has ever existed will ever exist or could ever exist. What a clever model you dreamt up. No wonder you find it so easy to defend establishment Democrats. Everyone is just as good as everyone else if just put in the right context. You are certainly right about the math. It’s a pretty damn useless way to model the world though.
So, no right wing government exists or has ever existed will ever exist or could ever exist.
No “-wing” government exists except in relation to something else. That’s a fundamental feature of reality. The current US government is more right wing than I would like. It’s more right wing than most of Europe. It’s more right wing (though not by as much as you think) than the US population would like. It’s less right wing than Saudi Arabia, or the Taliban.
And, of course, not all governments map perfectly to the left-right dynamic as we view it in the West. It’s a mostly useful metric though.
And, of course, there’s a difference between what people would want if they could wave a magic wand and make it so, vs what the people will support as politically achievable. That’s a big thing the Left fails to realize about the more centrist Democratic majority: yes, we want universal healthcare. Yes, we want strong unions. Yes, we want equal treatment for all under the law. Yes, we want higher taxes on the rich. Yes, we want monopolies broken up. A lot of us (maybe a majority?) even want worker ownership of the means of production. But we recognize that given the strong opposition to any progress, it’s just not possible to get those things immediately and without reservation. We advocate advancing towards those things as quickly as is practically feasible, while preventing backsliding from the opposition.
So asking people “what they want” without the context of what is feasible will give you answers that seem to support more radical Leftists when in reality the people giving those answers are going to vote for Harris, Biden, Warren, Pelosi, Obama, Newsom, etc. and not whatever random no-name 3rd party candidate the Socialists or Greens or whatever the flavor of the day is puts up.
Huh? What center are we talking about? Democrats are left of Republicans (marginally before Trump, but still) but the center of office holders is a pointless measure. Issue by issue the Democrats are solidly to the right of the vast majority of the US population.
da fuq? It’s the definition of “center”. It’s the literal way we measure political leanings.
One problem is that when it comes to individual issues, Americans are fairly to the left of Democrats. But when it comes to politicians or broad policies, Americans are to the RIGHT of Democrats. The American voting population is stupid, and they don’t consider individual issues (and in most cases, never vote on them via ballot measures etc). Also, a lot of policies are given the broad label of “reform”, and Americans have very different ideas of what “reform” means. “Immigration reform” could mean anything from an open border policy to immediate execution of any illegal immigrants. Most Americans support “reform” though.
So, half of the Taliban is left wing? Half of the third Reich was left wing? No, the center of office holders is not how we measure political leanings. You can go with political theory that defines left and right in a pretty fixed way, or you can go by the center of the population. By either of those standards, the Democrats are moderate right wing.
There is nothing particularly “stupid” about Americans. They are just flawed humans, and there is a reason for the mismatch between where they fall on issues and where they fall on (let’s call them) themes. The themes come from the narratives they receive from our two right wing parties. Ask them about particular issues and they think like individuals. Ask them about themes and they line up with the narratives coming to them from our two right wing parties.
Yes. There’s no universal human left vs right. Political ideologies change over time and place. The far left wing in the Taliban is roughly similar to the far right wing in America.
Gonna have to disagree there.
Damn. So, no right wing government exists or has ever existed will ever exist or could ever exist. What a clever model you dreamt up. No wonder you find it so easy to defend establishment Democrats. Everyone is just as good as everyone else if just put in the right context. You are certainly right about the math. It’s a pretty damn useless way to model the world though.
No “-wing” government exists except in relation to something else. That’s a fundamental feature of reality. The current US government is more right wing than I would like. It’s more right wing than most of Europe. It’s more right wing (though not by as much as you think) than the US population would like. It’s less right wing than Saudi Arabia, or the Taliban.
And, of course, not all governments map perfectly to the left-right dynamic as we view it in the West. It’s a mostly useful metric though.
And, of course, there’s a difference between what people would want if they could wave a magic wand and make it so, vs what the people will support as politically achievable. That’s a big thing the Left fails to realize about the more centrist Democratic majority: yes, we want universal healthcare. Yes, we want strong unions. Yes, we want equal treatment for all under the law. Yes, we want higher taxes on the rich. Yes, we want monopolies broken up. A lot of us (maybe a majority?) even want worker ownership of the means of production. But we recognize that given the strong opposition to any progress, it’s just not possible to get those things immediately and without reservation. We advocate advancing towards those things as quickly as is practically feasible, while preventing backsliding from the opposition.
So asking people “what they want” without the context of what is feasible will give you answers that seem to support more radical Leftists when in reality the people giving those answers are going to vote for Harris, Biden, Warren, Pelosi, Obama, Newsom, etc. and not whatever random no-name 3rd party candidate the Socialists or Greens or whatever the flavor of the day is puts up.