U.S. media largely ignored The Great March of Return that lasted almost two years. PBS was perhaps the most egregious example. See the Frontline film that P ...
I don’t disagree, but for what it’s worth, I don’t think most Europeans could either. As a comparison, I can certainly tell you that most Europeans can’t identify US states on a map outside of maybe one or two, and have no concept about the size of the US generally. That’s why Americans constantly hear about how we should be “protesting in DC,” as if people in Lisbon would ever protest in Helsinki. I don’t think ignorance and provincialism is a localized phenomenon.
I totally agree that most Europeans wouldn’t know that especially the size. In Europa the education standards varies alot between countries too. Is that true for different states aswell?
I might have been to quick to generalize.
My point was more along the lines that you should know the location of the countries you actively waged war in. I didn’t realize it changed to Iran I meant Iraq.
Europe works fundamentally different so it’s hard to compare this statement. If i lived in Portugal why should I protest the Finnish government, they have little to non power over me. I think a fairer comparison would be to “protest in Brüssel” which a few groups did do but certainly less. Or do you just chose that comparison based on the distance?
But I certainly agree that education could be better everywhere!
That’s right, each state has its own educational standards. For example, Colorado’s educational system is very, very different from West Virginia, like it’s a different country.
I made the comparison of Lisbon to Helsinki solely because of the distances involved; it’s roughly the same distance as Seattle to DC.
If it helps to imagine it, the US is basically an unhappy married couple forced to live in the same house.
I’ve never waged war in any country actually, despite being born in the US, believe it or not but we aren’t all personally in charge of what the US does as it’s citizens, we actually have very very little power because our reps aren’t legally required to vote or do as we say
When even the “more trustworthy” US news outlets (HAHAHAHAHA!) are manufacturing consent, it becomes very difficult for us to be anything other than idiots. Talking with my longtime acquaintances and friends in CA, DE, VN, and JP, the conversations invariably become “Did you hear about [current event causal factors]? This is super obvious, and here is [their reliable news sources].” Well, shit.
For example, the one that really blew me away was the US manipulating geopolitics with UA and RU so as to bring the EU to heel. WAT. “Oh yeah. I think US citizens are the only ones to whom that isn’t obvious. Y’all can’t stand having a true, strong democracy around. That’s why y’all are pushing the right-wing shit here too.”
I consider myself well-read (30+ non-fiction books per year, plus investigative journalism), but damn… some days I feel truly, completely out of the loop.
Talking with my longtime acquaintances and friends in CA, DE, VN, and JP, the conversations invariably become “Did you hear about [current event causal factors]? This is super obvious, and here is [their reliable news sources].” Well, shit.
Tru dat
For example, the one that really blew me away was the US manipulating geopolitics with UA and RU so as to bring the EU to heel.
Lolwut
Never change, lemmy.world. Your opinions are always a magical adventure.
Exactly, hence, my “WAT.” Let’s set aside the veracity of the US manipulating geopolitics in the UA/RU war; that was an example, but not the point I’m trying to make. Can we all agree that the US has a long history of fuckery when it comes to stomping out anything it doesn’t like or isn’t in line with corporate interests? Bananas, oil, crack cocaine in US inner cities, and democratically elected South American socialists leap to mind.
When my non-US friends tell me some of this stuff from their perspective, it absolutely stuns me that it’s an angle almost completely unavailable in US media. Maybe it’s covered by niche independent journalists, but then there is a credibility gap. Even if the independent journalist were absolutely presenting the truth, it’s still feels like tinfoil hat shit because of how severely we’re inculcated by “trustworthy” news sources in the US.
I like to think I’m a teeny bit media- and news-savvy, but damn… most days I really feel like a blithering idiot.
Let’s set aside the veracity of the US manipulating geopolitics in the UA/RU war
Let’s not. That’s the exact point at which you departed from accuracy into fantasy-land, and what I was taking note of.
Can we all agree that the US has a long history of fuckery when it comes to stomping out anything it doesn’t like or isn’t in line with corporate interests?
Yes, 100%.
Even if the independent journalist were absolutely presenting the truth, it’s still feels like tinfoil hat shit because of how severely we’re inculcated by “trustworthy” news sources in the US.
I like to think I’m a teeny bit media- and news-savvy, but damn… most days I really feel like a blithering idiot.
This is an impressive type of sophisticated negging whereby you criticize yourself as a way to implicitly criticize the reader, and tell them they’re an idiot.
Most of Lemmy and most of the content on Lemmy isn’t from the US as far as I’m aware. This whole media blackout you’re talking about is a very real thing for most US people, but it simply won’t apply on Lemmy or the sources that are usually prevalent on Lemmy. For example I host some news sources on rss.ponder.cat; four out of the top five of the popular ones are non-US sources.
If you are telling the truth about your self-assessment, I would really urge you to re-examine that leap you took from “most US readers are misinformed” to “most of the people in these comments are misinformed” and definitely the one you took to “US is skillfully manipulating the Ukraine situation, and definitely not fucking it up because they don’t care about much of the issues involved all that much, except insofar as their friends can sell tons of weapons to all parties involved.”
That’s the exact point at which you departed from accuracy into fantasy-land, and what I was taking note of.
That was an example I presented of my disbelief regarding that war. You are welcome to hone in on that topic, but even I said “WAT,” i.e. my disbelief regarding conclusions at which some people outside the US arrived.
This is an impressive type of sophisticated negging whereby you criticize yourself as a way to implicitly criticize the reader, and tell them they’re an idiot.
If you choose to read it that way, you are welcome to that view. I do think US news consumers are propagandized. The more I learn, the more I realize I have been stumbling around blindfolded with regards to US actions, domestically and abroad. My ignorance is mine alone. I was aiming for light and humorous at the depth and breadth of my ignorance. If you would like more clarification or elaboration, rather than making assumptions, I’m happy to discuss.
I would really urge you to re-examine that leap you took from “most US readers are misinformed” to “most of the people in these comments are misinformed”
That’s quite the leap yourself. Would you care to elaborate on how I called commenters here misinformed?
I think we might be missing each other’s points, and I think we probably agree more than this topic/thread would indicate. I feel like you are digging for an argument that doesn’t exist. I would rather find where we agree; putting me down and making extrapolations I didn’t intend nor feel doesn’t help anything, except maybe our egos. But I suppose agreement doesn’t make for compelling Lemmy comments.
even I said “WAT,” i.e. my disbelief regarding conclusions at which some people outside the US arrived.
That’s not what you said. You said that it was, more or less, a universal consensus outside the US that the US had manipulated events in Ukraine to weaken the EU, because they couldn’t stand having the EU around because it was a real democracy. So much so that you’re a “blithering idiot” “out of the loop” “depth and breadth of ignorance” and so on because you don’t see it that way because you consume US media, whereas the whole rest of the world knows that that’s going on. Right?
That assertion (that it’s universally believed outside the US, not even touching on whether it is true) is absolutely wrong. And then, you said “WAT” about your own reaction to it, but also seemed to take it very seriously, comparing it favorably to your own ideas which you were very negative about.
Would you care to elaborate on how I called commenters here misinformed?
You said “us,” as in “it becomes very difficult for us to be anything other than idiots”.
I feel like you are digging for an argument that doesn’t exist.
If you would like more clarification or elaboration, rather than making assumptions, I’m happy to discuss.
Okay, sure. Maybe that’s fair. So tell me: What are these reliable sources that your more wise and knowledgeable international friends read, what’s some of what they tell you about geopolitics and the war in Ukraine? Specifically as pertains to “US manipulating geopolitics with UA and RU so as to bring the EU to heel.” Since you’ve identified the idea that that is not happening as the “blithering idiot” viewpoint by contrast, maybe you can help me out of my idiocy by helping and elaborating.
This is such a terrible thing to say in a thread about a propaganda campaign to cover up a genocide. If I was more conspiracy minded I’d start to think it was a planned effort to distract from the topic at hand considering how often it comes up in these sorts of threads.
Unfortunately, I actually think it’s just some asshole that wants to feel superior. Since that’s probably the case, I’m also pretty sure you’d label like half the midwest as Texas, and probably think that a trip to New York is just a quick 30 minute drive for people in Florida.
So now that we’ve gotten our trite digs in on one another can we focus on the matter at hand? Cause I seriously doubt that the people being genocided give two fucks about this conversation.
Most Us Americans couldn’t even find Iran and Isreal on a map so this doesn’t surprise me.
I don’t disagree, but for what it’s worth, I don’t think most Europeans could either. As a comparison, I can certainly tell you that most Europeans can’t identify US states on a map outside of maybe one or two, and have no concept about the size of the US generally. That’s why Americans constantly hear about how we should be “protesting in DC,” as if people in Lisbon would ever protest in Helsinki. I don’t think ignorance and provincialism is a localized phenomenon.
lol generic “Washington DC” is ~2,700 miles away, 4,345 kilometers, from me! And I live in the lower 48/continental US
I totally agree that most Europeans wouldn’t know that especially the size. In Europa the education standards varies alot between countries too. Is that true for different states aswell? I might have been to quick to generalize.
My point was more along the lines that you should know the location of the countries you actively waged war in. I didn’t realize it changed to Iran I meant Iraq.
Europe works fundamentally different so it’s hard to compare this statement. If i lived in Portugal why should I protest the Finnish government, they have little to non power over me. I think a fairer comparison would be to “protest in Brüssel” which a few groups did do but certainly less. Or do you just chose that comparison based on the distance?
But I certainly agree that education could be better everywhere!
That’s right, each state has its own educational standards. For example, Colorado’s educational system is very, very different from West Virginia, like it’s a different country.
I made the comparison of Lisbon to Helsinki solely because of the distances involved; it’s roughly the same distance as Seattle to DC.
If it helps to imagine it, the US is basically an unhappy married couple forced to live in the same house.
I’ve never waged war in any country actually, despite being born in the US, believe it or not but we aren’t all personally in charge of what the US does as it’s citizens, we actually have very very little power because our reps aren’t legally required to vote or do as we say
When even the “more trustworthy” US news outlets (HAHAHAHAHA!) are manufacturing consent, it becomes very difficult for us to be anything other than idiots. Talking with my longtime acquaintances and friends in CA, DE, VN, and JP, the conversations invariably become “Did you hear about [current event causal factors]? This is super obvious, and here is [their reliable news sources].” Well, shit.
For example, the one that really blew me away was the US manipulating geopolitics with UA and RU so as to bring the EU to heel. WAT. “Oh yeah. I think US citizens are the only ones to whom that isn’t obvious. Y’all can’t stand having a true, strong democracy around. That’s why y’all are pushing the right-wing shit here too.”
I consider myself well-read (30+ non-fiction books per year, plus investigative journalism), but damn… some days I feel truly, completely out of the loop.
Tru dat
Lolwut
Never change, lemmy.world. Your opinions are always a magical adventure.
Exactly, hence, my “WAT.” Let’s set aside the veracity of the US manipulating geopolitics in the UA/RU war; that was an example, but not the point I’m trying to make. Can we all agree that the US has a long history of fuckery when it comes to stomping out anything it doesn’t like or isn’t in line with corporate interests? Bananas, oil, crack cocaine in US inner cities, and democratically elected South American socialists leap to mind.
When my non-US friends tell me some of this stuff from their perspective, it absolutely stuns me that it’s an angle almost completely unavailable in US media. Maybe it’s covered by niche independent journalists, but then there is a credibility gap. Even if the independent journalist were absolutely presenting the truth, it’s still feels like tinfoil hat shit because of how severely we’re inculcated by “trustworthy” news sources in the US.
I like to think I’m a teeny bit media- and news-savvy, but damn… most days I really feel like a blithering idiot.
Let’s not. That’s the exact point at which you departed from accuracy into fantasy-land, and what I was taking note of.
Yes, 100%.
This is an impressive type of sophisticated negging whereby you criticize yourself as a way to implicitly criticize the reader, and tell them they’re an idiot.
Most of Lemmy and most of the content on Lemmy isn’t from the US as far as I’m aware. This whole media blackout you’re talking about is a very real thing for most US people, but it simply won’t apply on Lemmy or the sources that are usually prevalent on Lemmy. For example I host some news sources on rss.ponder.cat; four out of the top five of the popular ones are non-US sources.
If you are telling the truth about your self-assessment, I would really urge you to re-examine that leap you took from “most US readers are misinformed” to “most of the people in these comments are misinformed” and definitely the one you took to “US is skillfully manipulating the Ukraine situation, and definitely not fucking it up because they don’t care about much of the issues involved all that much, except insofar as their friends can sell tons of weapons to all parties involved.”
That was an example I presented of my disbelief regarding that war. You are welcome to hone in on that topic, but even I said “WAT,” i.e. my disbelief regarding conclusions at which some people outside the US arrived.
If you choose to read it that way, you are welcome to that view. I do think US news consumers are propagandized. The more I learn, the more I realize I have been stumbling around blindfolded with regards to US actions, domestically and abroad. My ignorance is mine alone. I was aiming for light and humorous at the depth and breadth of my ignorance. If you would like more clarification or elaboration, rather than making assumptions, I’m happy to discuss.
That’s quite the leap yourself. Would you care to elaborate on how I called commenters here misinformed?
I think we might be missing each other’s points, and I think we probably agree more than this topic/thread would indicate. I feel like you are digging for an argument that doesn’t exist. I would rather find where we agree; putting me down and making extrapolations I didn’t intend nor feel doesn’t help anything, except maybe our egos. But I suppose agreement doesn’t make for compelling Lemmy comments.
That’s not what you said. You said that it was, more or less, a universal consensus outside the US that the US had manipulated events in Ukraine to weaken the EU, because they couldn’t stand having the EU around because it was a real democracy. So much so that you’re a “blithering idiot” “out of the loop” “depth and breadth of ignorance” and so on because you don’t see it that way because you consume US media, whereas the whole rest of the world knows that that’s going on. Right?
That assertion (that it’s universally believed outside the US, not even touching on whether it is true) is absolutely wrong. And then, you said “WAT” about your own reaction to it, but also seemed to take it very seriously, comparing it favorably to your own ideas which you were very negative about.
You said “us,” as in “it becomes very difficult for us to be anything other than idiots”.
Okay, sure. Maybe that’s fair. So tell me: What are these reliable sources that your more wise and knowledgeable international friends read, what’s some of what they tell you about geopolitics and the war in Ukraine? Specifically as pertains to “US manipulating geopolitics with UA and RU so as to bring the EU to heel.” Since you’ve identified the idea that that is not happening as the “blithering idiot” viewpoint by contrast, maybe you can help me out of my idiocy by helping and elaborating.
Edit: Rephrasing
This is such a terrible thing to say in a thread about a propaganda campaign to cover up a genocide. If I was more conspiracy minded I’d start to think it was a planned effort to distract from the topic at hand considering how often it comes up in these sorts of threads.
Unfortunately, I actually think it’s just some asshole that wants to feel superior. Since that’s probably the case, I’m also pretty sure you’d label like half the midwest as Texas, and probably think that a trip to New York is just a quick 30 minute drive for people in Florida.
So now that we’ve gotten our trite digs in on one another can we focus on the matter at hand? Cause I seriously doubt that the people being genocided give two fucks about this conversation.