Graphene OS only runs on 16 models of phone, Google Pixels. I’ve bought a dozen or so Google hardware devices over the years and I refuse to go through that abysmal experience ever again.
Graphene OS might be amazing for all I know, but only supporting Google hardware makes it a joke in the real world outside of the Google fanboy bubble.
As for deleting all the content of your phone, what makes you think that border security or law enforcement won’t access your data directly from your backup on Google’s cloud?
As far as I can tell, this post is an advertisement for Graphene OS. In real world terms, in my opinion, it adds nothing of substance to the privacy or security landscape.
Graphene OS might be amazing for all I know, but only supporting Google hardware makes it a joke in the real world outside of the Google fanboy bubble.
You should probably read about the subject a bit more before sharing your opinions on this.
People install GrapheneOS because they are NOT fans of Google. The Pixel is simply the only phone with the hardware to support a secure, non-Google OS.
As for deleting all the content of your phone, what makes you think that border security or law enforcement won’t access your data directly from your backup on Google’s cloud?
I don’t know anyone who takes the effort to install an aggressively de-Googled OS and then uses Google cloud services.
I can see how there would appear to be irony if someone doesn’t distinguish software from hardware.
You don’t need Google software to use a Pixel and Google’s software is the privacy/security concern. Their hardware isn’t bad and it has unique features that make it the best consumer device for security.
I won’t buy an ATV from Yamaha, but I would buy a Yamaha Saxophone. Because they’re two completely distinct things, made by completely different groups of people despite being under the same company name.
The separation between software and hardware is not nearly as distinct as your comment suggests. Beyond (sometimes replaceable) firmware there’s microcode and embedded systems with their own software inside modules like the modem that allows your phone to actually talk to the network.
Those things are technically true but largely irrelevant.
The concern about Google’s software is that the software that they produce which is targeted at consumers binds the user with a restrictive TOS which allows them access to all of your personal data. Their Play Services gives Google very low level access to the operating system and their cloud services are being constantly enshittified.
So I avoid that software and those services.
That doesn’t mean that every piece of software that Google produces is implicated. The teams writing low level firmware for optical fingerprint readers are not the ones developing consumer spyware.
I’m concerned about security, I’m not an anti-Google zealot.
I don’t WANT to support Google, but unfortunately their hardware is superior for this purpose.
The GrapheneOS devs have a public list of hardware requirements for any manufacturer that wants to support real security, so far only the Pixel checks all the boxes
Technically only the kernel is Linux, but the userspace is all Google!
Okay technically technically it’s a modified kernel, and I’m sure there are plenty of parts of userspace that Google just imported without modification.
There’s a reason it only supports Pixel phones: none of the other manufacturers produce phones that are suitable for it. All the other ones either don’t let you unlock the bootloader, won’t let you relock it with your own keys, or disables other security featurea. Meaning anyone can just flash whatever code they want to the phone and completely nullify the security model.
For a bit, OnePlus did support this but they quietly removed that feature with the Android 12 bootloader update, and otherwise cut you off from the TEE anyway so the OS can’t even verify the boot chain.
The GrapheneOS team said they would happily support other devices if any met their criterias for support. None do. Pixels are the only phone where you can properly flash a custom OS on, and relock the bootloader and disable OEM unlocking like it’s the official OS with all the security features functional.
Because hardcore graphene OS users would not have any data on Google’s clouds because they know the danger of having cloud data and would not accept it.
Hell, I don’t even have a Google account and haven’t for several years.
The main idea on a device running something like Graphene OS is that you are already in a state of using minimal, if not at all using Google Cloud services, including data backups. It’s intended in tandem with modifications like GMS, GPS (if optionally installed into a given user, work profile) running as an unprivileged, permission-based application. If someone is taking their data privacy and security seriously enough to consider using a duress PIN and flashed their phone with something along the lines of Graphene OS, would they be likely to have heavy reliance to Google’s Cloud offerings?
Have you ever used GrapheneOS? It doesn’t support backups via Google’s service at all, provides no Google services by default, and sandboxes them heavily if you choose to install them. Aside from the hardware, it has very little to do with Google.
I’m happy for you to quote me, but it does require that you actually quote what I said rather than what you think I said.
Specifically I said:
As far as I can tell, this post is an advertisement for Graphene OS. In real world terms, in my opinion, it adds nothing of substance to the privacy or security landscape.
I did not state that Graphene OS didn’t add to the security landscape, though that’s how you interpreted it. Using “it adds nothing”, I was referring to the article linked in the OP. Could I have worded this better, sure. Did I say what you think I said, no.
What didn’t you like? I’ve had multiple Pixels and no major issues.
Border agents are unlikely to have access to cloud data. Police definitely do, but I just don’t have a cloud backup of my phone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I use Grapheneos’ seedvault backups to USB. It’s not a very smooth process, so they’re planning on replacing it. I’ve tested backups and restores, though, and they definitely work.
Only one problem.
Graphene OS only runs on 16 models of phone, Google Pixels. I’ve bought a dozen or so Google hardware devices over the years and I refuse to go through that abysmal experience ever again.
Graphene OS might be amazing for all I know, but only supporting Google hardware makes it a joke in the real world outside of the Google fanboy bubble.
As for deleting all the content of your phone, what makes you think that border security or law enforcement won’t access your data directly from your backup on Google’s cloud?
As far as I can tell, this post is an advertisement for Graphene OS. In real world terms, in my opinion, it adds nothing of substance to the privacy or security landscape.
You should probably read about the subject a bit more before sharing your opinions on this.
People install GrapheneOS because they are NOT fans of Google. The Pixel is simply the only phone with the hardware to support a secure, non-Google OS.
I don’t know anyone who takes the effort to install an aggressively de-Googled OS and then uses Google cloud services.
Do you see the irony associated with buying hardware from the same company who’s software you actively want to remove?
I can see how there would appear to be irony if someone doesn’t distinguish software from hardware.
You don’t need Google software to use a Pixel and Google’s software is the privacy/security concern. Their hardware isn’t bad and it has unique features that make it the best consumer device for security.
I won’t buy an ATV from Yamaha, but I would buy a Yamaha Saxophone. Because they’re two completely distinct things, made by completely different groups of people despite being under the same company name.
The separation between software and hardware is not nearly as distinct as your comment suggests. Beyond (sometimes replaceable) firmware there’s microcode and embedded systems with their own software inside modules like the modem that allows your phone to actually talk to the network.
Those things are technically true but largely irrelevant.
The concern about Google’s software is that the software that they produce which is targeted at consumers binds the user with a restrictive TOS which allows them access to all of your personal data. Their Play Services gives Google very low level access to the operating system and their cloud services are being constantly enshittified.
So I avoid that software and those services.
That doesn’t mean that every piece of software that Google produces is implicated. The teams writing low level firmware for optical fingerprint readers are not the ones developing consumer spyware.
I’m concerned about security, I’m not an anti-Google zealot.
That said, I personally would love to see the day that fairphone or another company is able to support graphene.
Oh definitely.
I don’t WANT to support Google, but unfortunately their hardware is superior for this purpose.
The GrapheneOS devs have a public list of hardware requirements for any manufacturer that wants to support real security, so far only the Pixel checks all the boxes
Technically all Android is Google software but yeah
It’s all Linux software, technically
Technically only the kernel is Linux, but the userspace is all Google!
Okay technically technically it’s a modified kernel, and I’m sure there are plenty of parts of userspace that Google just imported without modification.
Software is complicated.
There’s a reason it only supports Pixel phones: none of the other manufacturers produce phones that are suitable for it. All the other ones either don’t let you unlock the bootloader, won’t let you relock it with your own keys, or disables other security featurea. Meaning anyone can just flash whatever code they want to the phone and completely nullify the security model.
For a bit, OnePlus did support this but they quietly removed that feature with the Android 12 bootloader update, and otherwise cut you off from the TEE anyway so the OS can’t even verify the boot chain.
The GrapheneOS team said they would happily support other devices if any met their criterias for support. None do. Pixels are the only phone where you can properly flash a custom OS on, and relock the bootloader and disable OEM unlocking like it’s the official OS with all the security features functional.
This is helpful.
Because hardcore graphene OS users would not have any data on Google’s clouds because they know the danger of having cloud data and would not accept it.
Hell, I don’t even have a Google account and haven’t for several years.
The main idea on a device running something like Graphene OS is that you are already in a state of using minimal, if not at all using Google Cloud services, including data backups. It’s intended in tandem with modifications like GMS, GPS (if optionally installed into a given user, work profile) running as an unprivileged, permission-based application. If someone is taking their data privacy and security seriously enough to consider using a duress PIN and flashed their phone with something along the lines of Graphene OS, would they be likely to have heavy reliance to Google’s Cloud offerings?
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Have you ever used GrapheneOS? It doesn’t support backups via Google’s service at all, provides no Google services by default, and sandboxes them heavily if you choose to install them. Aside from the hardware, it has very little to do with Google.
What backup on Google cloud?
Hahahahaha, your whole comment is laughable, it’s the very definition of hubris (that is the combination of being arrogant and incorrect).
I,for one, haven’t used Google as a backup since 2010. Anyone with any awareness of privacy doesn’t use it.
I run Lineage, with no Google services, no Google connectivity. I actively block connections to known-untrustworthy domains and IP addresses.
Graphene is the high-water mark in privacy and security on Android.
You should probably actually understand what’s going on before prognosticating in ignorance.
I’m going to guess most people that use Graphene OS don’t use any Google product unless it’s encrypted using something like Cryptomator.
I’m happy for you to quote me, but it does require that you actually quote what I said rather than what you think I said.
Specifically I said:
I did not state that Graphene OS didn’t add to the security landscape, though that’s how you interpreted it. Using “it adds nothing”, I was referring to the article linked in the OP. Could I have worded this better, sure. Did I say what you think I said, no.
What didn’t you like? I’ve had multiple Pixels and no major issues.
Border agents are unlikely to have access to cloud data. Police definitely do, but I just don’t have a cloud backup of my phone ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I use Grapheneos’ seedvault backups to USB. It’s not a very smooth process, so they’re planning on replacing it. I’ve tested backups and restores, though, and they definitely work.
Most other phone brands don’t unlock their bootloaders anymore, so GrapheneOS can’t support them, even if they want to.