The far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party has topped a nationwide opinion poll. Meanwhile, Kenyan athletes won both the men's and women's races at the Berlin Marathon. DW has the latest from Germany.
25+ million Soviet people died in the struggle against fascism, resulting in 80% of the total Nazi casualties being in the eastern front. Please don’t insult the memory of the heroes who died saving Europe from fascism.
Also, I’m a Spaniard. Anarchists in Spain organized and fought fascism in the Spanish civil war, with Soviet assistance too back in 1936-1939. If you’re not sure who fought fascism, I urge you to educate yourself in communist/anarchist movements.
25+ million Soviet people died in the struggle against fascism, resulting in 80% of the total Nazi casualties being in the eastern front. Please don’t insult the memory of the heroes who died saving Europe from fascism.
I’m not trying to minimize anything here. The Soviet Union had a non-aggression pact with Germany and they didn’t “fight against fascism” until Germany invaded. Meaning “there being Nazis” wasn’t the trigger of that fighting, it was “Germany invaded us”. But then sure, it was “fighting against fascism” because it was “fascists” invading. But it could have been anyone invading.
It’s a subtle distinction I’m making.
Also, I’m a Spaniard. Anarchists in Spain organized and fought fascism in the Spanish civil war, with Soviet assistance too back in 1936-1939. If you’re not sure who fought fascism, I urge you to educate yourself in communist/anarchist movements.
This is fair - I was thinking mostly of the main Axis/Allies conflict. I’m also over-simplifying a bit in that I’m focusing mostly on leadership. I understand that there were grassroots efforts. And Spain definitely had its own fascism problem where the people did fight directly against fascism.
Though as an aside: I can think of no more of an obnoxious phrase than “educate yourself”. 🙄
they didn’t “fight against fascism” until Germany invaded
Did you not read my comment? I specifically mentioned the Soviets being the only country in the world that meaningfully helped the antifascists in Spain with weapons, tanks, artillery and aviation, back in 1936, 3 years before the start of WW2 while all of western Europe was doing appeasement with the Nazis and “non-intervention” against fascism in my homeland.
Before the start of the war, the Soviets were famously trying to urge all of Europe against Fascism and in particular against Nazi Germany through mutual defense agreements. They signed one with Czechoslovakia together with France, which France refused to honour (see Munich Betrayal), which, and I quote Wikipedia: “The Soviet Union announced its willingness to come to Czechoslovakia’s assistance, provided the Red Army would be able to cross Polish and Romanian territory; both countries refused.”, again back in 1938, before any Fascist invasion of the Soviets. Furthermore, the USSR under the Litvinov doctrine sought after mutual defense agreements with Poland, France and England, to the point of offering to send ONE MILLION SOLDIERS to France (Archive mirror to bypass paywall) together with tanks, aviation and artillery to France on exchange for a mutual defense agreement, which France declined.
Looking into Soviet interwar policy, it’s patently obvious that they were the strongest antifascist formation in Europe except possibly for the Spanish republicans during the Spanish civil war.
I’m also over-simplifying a bit in that I’m focusing mostly on leadership
My point stands though. Fascism was fought predominantly by Communist and Anarchist leadership. China against fascist Japan, Cuban revolutionaries against fascist dictator Batista, Spanish Republican government in the Spanish civil war… Whereas it was capitalist countries funding fascist coups all over the world such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile against socialdemocrat Allende, the Iranian coup against socialist-aligned Mosaddeq…
Yes I did - and you’re making excellent points - don’t do this though. You want to harden somebody against you? You say shit like this.
My point stands though. Fascism was fought predominantly by Communist and Anarchist leadership. China against fascist Japan, Cuban revolutionaries against fascist dictator Batista, Spanish Republican government in the Spanish civil war… Whereas it was capitalist countries funding fascist coups all over the world such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile against socialdemocrat Allende, the Iranian coup against socialist-aligned Mosaddeq…
Yeah, you’re actually right. Sorry for being a smug ass, I guess I’m sensitive about this part of history which is heavily misunderstood and propagandized against socialists like me, but you’re right and I’ll try to be more chill about it. Thanks for the chat
I hear ya. I have actually been to Spain BTW (and no, not just Barcelona) and it’s a beautiful country with a rich history. We certainly don’t learn much about Spain in the US (beyond “age of sail” type stuff) so your sensitivity is rather justified. What I learned there about the civil war, Franco, etc. was eye-opening. But seems I could use a refresher. ;-)
I’m not sure anyone really fought it last time. The wars didn’t start until Germany started invading other nations which is what started the shooting.
The US didn’t even enter the war until it was bombed.
“We fought fascism” is a bit of retroactive justification IMHO. We didn’t, we were just defending ourselves from fascists who attacked first.
If Hitler stayed in Germany… Who knows?
25+ million Soviet people died in the struggle against fascism, resulting in 80% of the total Nazi casualties being in the eastern front. Please don’t insult the memory of the heroes who died saving Europe from fascism.
Also, I’m a Spaniard. Anarchists in Spain organized and fought fascism in the Spanish civil war, with Soviet assistance too back in 1936-1939. If you’re not sure who fought fascism, I urge you to educate yourself in communist/anarchist movements.
I’m not trying to minimize anything here. The Soviet Union had a non-aggression pact with Germany and they didn’t “fight against fascism” until Germany invaded. Meaning “there being Nazis” wasn’t the trigger of that fighting, it was “Germany invaded us”. But then sure, it was “fighting against fascism” because it was “fascists” invading. But it could have been anyone invading.
It’s a subtle distinction I’m making.
This is fair - I was thinking mostly of the main Axis/Allies conflict. I’m also over-simplifying a bit in that I’m focusing mostly on leadership. I understand that there were grassroots efforts. And Spain definitely had its own fascism problem where the people did fight directly against fascism.
Though as an aside: I can think of no more of an obnoxious phrase than “educate yourself”. 🙄
Did you not read my comment? I specifically mentioned the Soviets being the only country in the world that meaningfully helped the antifascists in Spain with weapons, tanks, artillery and aviation, back in 1936, 3 years before the start of WW2 while all of western Europe was doing appeasement with the Nazis and “non-intervention” against fascism in my homeland.
Before the start of the war, the Soviets were famously trying to urge all of Europe against Fascism and in particular against Nazi Germany through mutual defense agreements. They signed one with Czechoslovakia together with France, which France refused to honour (see Munich Betrayal), which, and I quote Wikipedia: “The Soviet Union announced its willingness to come to Czechoslovakia’s assistance, provided the Red Army would be able to cross Polish and Romanian territory; both countries refused.”, again back in 1938, before any Fascist invasion of the Soviets. Furthermore, the USSR under the Litvinov doctrine sought after mutual defense agreements with Poland, France and England, to the point of offering to send ONE MILLION SOLDIERS to France (Archive mirror to bypass paywall) together with tanks, aviation and artillery to France on exchange for a mutual defense agreement, which France declined.
Looking into Soviet interwar policy, it’s patently obvious that they were the strongest antifascist formation in Europe except possibly for the Spanish republicans during the Spanish civil war.
My point stands though. Fascism was fought predominantly by Communist and Anarchist leadership. China against fascist Japan, Cuban revolutionaries against fascist dictator Batista, Spanish Republican government in the Spanish civil war… Whereas it was capitalist countries funding fascist coups all over the world such as that of Augusto Pinochet in Chile against socialdemocrat Allende, the Iranian coup against socialist-aligned Mosaddeq…
Yes I did - and you’re making excellent points - don’t do this though. You want to harden somebody against you? You say shit like this.
I’ll accept your argument.
Yeah, you’re actually right. Sorry for being a smug ass, I guess I’m sensitive about this part of history which is heavily misunderstood and propagandized against socialists like me, but you’re right and I’ll try to be more chill about it. Thanks for the chat
I hear ya. I have actually been to Spain BTW (and no, not just Barcelona) and it’s a beautiful country with a rich history. We certainly don’t learn much about Spain in the US (beyond “age of sail” type stuff) so your sensitivity is rather justified. What I learned there about the civil war, Franco, etc. was eye-opening. But seems I could use a refresher. ;-)