ghoti is not a word/bastard word that only has application in written context, plain and simple. understandable spelling rules is completely irrelevant, we’re talking about literal spoken words here, not written ones; so can you stop going off topic and present strawmans.
Sur, you can’t read. None of the artificially introduced argument was apart of the non-native speakers argument, that’s why they’re separated by a blank new line.
It’s artificially introduced into “normal english”, yes. Because the vast majority don’t want to say “Cis”, especially “Cis people” and it has been that way for a very long time. Forcing people to say it because “my little feelings” is stupid. The vast majority of people prefer to say “Women” in reference to biological Women and by the literal English definition, they are correct.
give me a definition of the word “culture” and/or “consciousness” that everyone agrees with and without making it seem meaningless.
That’s easy.
Culture : relating to the ideas, customs, and social behavior of a society.
Consciousness : the state of being “awake” and aware of your surroundings.
The reality is that even without a complete and accurate definition of the word, the word could have utility and would work just fine in daily conversations.
So what you’re saying is that you should have to make no attempt at all because “utility”.
Ok then.
What? “Ghoti” is not a real word and it is famous for exposing the fact that for most people would pronounce it correctly as “goti” while they couldn’t explain why it isn’t pronounced “fish”. In other words, how e.g. most people don’t know why the “GH” in “enough” is pronounced “f” and not “g” like in “ghost”. So I am speaking about spoken English as I am talking about pronouncing words. So I don’t know what you are on about “going off topic and strawmaning”. Well if anything you are strawmaning me. My argument is clear if you are worried about bio women and bio weapon confusing non native English speakers than isn’t the fact that most native English speakers don’t know why “ghoti” can not be pronounced “fish” while “GH” in “enough” is f, “o” in “women” is “I” and “ti” in “nation” is “sh”. GH O TI => f I sh => fish. How confusing is that for non native English speakers? Or how you pronounce “bomb” and “womb”? I am pointing out how ridiculous “bio women” “bio weapon” is compared to real daily English, when talking about non native speakers confusion. My point being “what are you even on about?”
I am cis. I used cis multiple times by my own desire in this conversation. So… there are cis people who use the word cis. Also you can’t seperate your arguments like that. If you are concerned about non native English speakers having trouble with cis, then you probably should be concerned about how fucking weird English in general is, and my question was, as in your other argument that you are supposedly holding, as we can’t fix the language by replace “bad” words with confusing spelling with “good” words with easy to understand spelling, as it would be artificially introducing words, What are you doing to do about the weird stuff in English that is confusing to native English speakers too? You can’t seriously hold the position that English should be easy for non native speakers and in the next, not care about it at all, because then why do you care in the first one?
Based on your definition of culture, music and art is not culture, as those aren’t ideas, nor customs nor social behavior… i don’t think people will agree with your definition.
Based on your definition of consciousness, only covers the idea of someone being “awake” and “aware” and not the idea that while sleeping, we have an understanding of a “ourself” and the “door”. So do you mean “someone being awake” or “someone being aware”? If so, is an “ai” camera that can identify people based on their face conscious? It is “aware” of it’s surroundings as it is identifying people. So could you be more precise in your definition?
When did I say that someone shouldn’t try to give it a definition? I am saying that even without one, it has utility. We might not agree with what women means precisely but it probably would still work for daily conversations. In other words, having no precise definition isn’t really a problem. As if needed, you can always add information to express yourself more accurately.
Based on your definition of culture, music and art is not culture, as those aren’t ideas, nor customs nor social behavior… i don’t think people will agree with your definition.
I can’t believe you’re really this dumb.
Music & Art are literally mediums used as to express ideas in a manner to convey emotions, customs, identity, traditions, social behaviors and values, etc. to a listener/viewer.
Based on your definition of consciousness, only covers the idea of someone being “awake” and “aware” and not the idea that while sleeping, we have an understanding of a “ourself” and the “door”. So do you mean “someone being awake” or “someone being aware”? If so, is an “ai” camera that can identify people based on their face conscious? It is “aware” of it’s surroundings as it is identifying people. So could you be more precise in your definition?
You literally just said that? Bruh. 🤦🤦♀️🤦♂️
That’s not how neural networks work, it isn’t aware of anything. It just interprets pixels based on a pre-defined dataset using an algorithm defined by the programmer.
It has no awareness of how the pixels actually relate to one another, and doesn’t have any conceptual understanding of the objects in an environment. Nor does it have any awareness of itself, nor have subjective experiences or even the capacity for introspection.
I swear to God if you go “but what about AI hallucinating”… That’s a bug, like in any other program, it’s not literally hallucinating.
When I mentioned being “awake” and “aware” in my previous response, I was referring to the state of wakefulness where one is conscious of their surroundings & self; being able to perceive and interact with the world. This also includes various states such as being asleep, dreaming, or even in altered states of consciousnes. As example, when we sleep, we may have experiences like dreaming, where we can have an understanding of ourselves and the environment in the dream. However, during deep sleep or other sleep stages, our consciousness may be diminished or altered in different ways.
I already disagree with art being a medium of express of ideas or emotions. Art might have been constructed with an idea and even with emotions but the artist might not try to express them at all. Additionally, if I would agree with you, then I have following question. if the art piece produced by someone in a society is expressing an idea, e.g. pedophilia is great, is that idea now part of the culture of the society? How many people need to agree? It should be irrelevant in your opinion otherwise art isn’t part of culture unless enough people agree with the idea in the art piece. Also if you want to argue that it is not art, there isn’t really an agreement of what art is. Famously so. So yeah, you can argue about that it wouldn’t be art but then you would disagree with yourself and you would have to provide a working definition for art.
So your definition of consciousness wasn’t precise enough and you had to express your actual idea more clearly. Strange, it is almost as if having a conceptual idea of something and being able to express it well are too different things. So you caught on to my point about ai but you failed to see it to the end. Yeah a current ai wouldn’t be understood by people as conscious but my point was to express that you have to draw a line about what is conscious and what is not. Which is why I picked a face recognition camera. It is literally like saying, “if you think animals can be eaten, then are you eating human?”, obviously the person doesn’t expect you to eat humans. It is a rhetorical question. The real question would be “what is the difference between humans and animals? And why does it justify eating them?”. In this case, At which position does the meaty neural network that is my brain become conscious and different than the neural network in a program? Where is the line? Without that line your definition is vague and people will maybe agree with your definition without agreeing with your conceptual idea that you try to express. In other words, your definition doesn’t work. I really had to spoon feed you that one? Using 🤦♂️when you aren’t even able to understand rhetorical questions.
If you think you have now defined the difference between an ai and a human, why humans are and ai is not conscious. Your Wakefulness definition isn’t making it clear when you would grant something the title of consciousness. I mean when is something wakeful or is actually perceiving the world. (I mean interact with the world is obviously already the case, chatgtp has written poor legal defenses and cause some good laughter, there are cyber security ai products that try to identify and report attacks on a network,…). At which point does “detecting Malware” become “perceiving Malware”? That was my point. So you haven’t answered it at all.
Piss Jesus is Art, the message itself & if people agree with it or not is completely irrelevant. Art is just as I said previously. Enough said.
Here are some criteria for a good definition:
Focus: The definition should exclude non-essentials.
Conciseness: The definition should be as concise as possible.
Clarity: The definition should be clear and unambiguous.
AI is nothing but an algorithm, 1 & 0’s that is all. Now stop trying to apply crap to AI that simple doesn’t. Go do some research by yourself and learn the difference between ANNs/SNNs and a human brain because I’m not your god damn teacher.
I’ve lost all interest in this conversation, stay confused.
So culture is literally everything. Every human action within a society is part of the culture of the society. So I can say something like “the USA has a communistic culture” while the USA is by far more capitalistic than communistic and that sounds like your definition of culture makes the word mean nothing.
Yeah a good definition defines what is needed and not more, but your definitions don’t define the essentials.
You are confusing my challenge again. My argument isn’t that there aren’t currently no differences or that those differences will ever disappear. My argument is how and why do those differences matter in identifying whether or not they are conscious. Which is important and essential in understanding consciousness because it is literally about what is.
I am not confused but you seemed easily confused over my criticm of your poorly expressed views and ideas (and art).
ghoti is not a word/bastard word that only has application in written context, plain and simple. understandable spelling rules is completely irrelevant, we’re talking about literal spoken words here, not written ones; so can you stop going off topic and present strawmans.
Sur, you can’t read. None of the artificially introduced argument was apart of the non-native speakers argument, that’s why they’re separated by a blank new line.
It’s artificially introduced into “normal english”, yes. Because the vast majority don’t want to say “Cis”, especially “Cis people” and it has been that way for a very long time. Forcing people to say it because “my little feelings” is stupid. The vast majority of people prefer to say “Women” in reference to biological Women and by the literal English definition, they are correct.
That’s easy.
Culture : relating to the ideas, customs, and social behavior of a society.
Consciousness : the state of being “awake” and aware of your surroundings.
So what you’re saying is that you should have to make no attempt at all because “utility”. Ok then.
What? “Ghoti” is not a real word and it is famous for exposing the fact that for most people would pronounce it correctly as “goti” while they couldn’t explain why it isn’t pronounced “fish”. In other words, how e.g. most people don’t know why the “GH” in “enough” is pronounced “f” and not “g” like in “ghost”. So I am speaking about spoken English as I am talking about pronouncing words. So I don’t know what you are on about “going off topic and strawmaning”. Well if anything you are strawmaning me. My argument is clear if you are worried about bio women and bio weapon confusing non native English speakers than isn’t the fact that most native English speakers don’t know why “ghoti” can not be pronounced “fish” while “GH” in “enough” is f, “o” in “women” is “I” and “ti” in “nation” is “sh”. GH O TI => f I sh => fish. How confusing is that for non native English speakers? Or how you pronounce “bomb” and “womb”? I am pointing out how ridiculous “bio women” “bio weapon” is compared to real daily English, when talking about non native speakers confusion. My point being “what are you even on about?”
I am cis. I used cis multiple times by my own desire in this conversation. So… there are cis people who use the word cis. Also you can’t seperate your arguments like that. If you are concerned about non native English speakers having trouble with cis, then you probably should be concerned about how fucking weird English in general is, and my question was, as in your other argument that you are supposedly holding, as we can’t fix the language by replace “bad” words with confusing spelling with “good” words with easy to understand spelling, as it would be artificially introducing words, What are you doing to do about the weird stuff in English that is confusing to native English speakers too? You can’t seriously hold the position that English should be easy for non native speakers and in the next, not care about it at all, because then why do you care in the first one?
Based on your definition of culture, music and art is not culture, as those aren’t ideas, nor customs nor social behavior… i don’t think people will agree with your definition.
Based on your definition of consciousness, only covers the idea of someone being “awake” and “aware” and not the idea that while sleeping, we have an understanding of a “ourself” and the “door”. So do you mean “someone being awake” or “someone being aware”? If so, is an “ai” camera that can identify people based on their face conscious? It is “aware” of it’s surroundings as it is identifying people. So could you be more precise in your definition?
When did I say that someone shouldn’t try to give it a definition? I am saying that even without one, it has utility. We might not agree with what women means precisely but it probably would still work for daily conversations. In other words, having no precise definition isn’t really a problem. As if needed, you can always add information to express yourself more accurately.
Come back to me when you learn how to read.
I can’t believe you’re really this dumb.
Music & Art are literally mediums used as to express ideas in a manner to convey emotions, customs, identity, traditions, social behaviors and values, etc. to a listener/viewer.
You literally just said that? Bruh. 🤦🤦♀️🤦♂️
That’s not how neural networks work, it isn’t aware of anything. It just interprets pixels based on a pre-defined dataset using an algorithm defined by the programmer. It has no awareness of how the pixels actually relate to one another, and doesn’t have any conceptual understanding of the objects in an environment. Nor does it have any awareness of itself, nor have subjective experiences or even the capacity for introspection.
I swear to God if you go “but what about AI hallucinating”… That’s a bug, like in any other program, it’s not literally hallucinating.
When I mentioned being “awake” and “aware” in my previous response, I was referring to the state of wakefulness where one is conscious of their surroundings & self; being able to perceive and interact with the world. This also includes various states such as being asleep, dreaming, or even in altered states of consciousnes. As example, when we sleep, we may have experiences like dreaming, where we can have an understanding of ourselves and the environment in the dream. However, during deep sleep or other sleep stages, our consciousness may be diminished or altered in different ways.
I’m bored of this conversation now.
I already disagree with art being a medium of express of ideas or emotions. Art might have been constructed with an idea and even with emotions but the artist might not try to express them at all. Additionally, if I would agree with you, then I have following question. if the art piece produced by someone in a society is expressing an idea, e.g. pedophilia is great, is that idea now part of the culture of the society? How many people need to agree? It should be irrelevant in your opinion otherwise art isn’t part of culture unless enough people agree with the idea in the art piece. Also if you want to argue that it is not art, there isn’t really an agreement of what art is. Famously so. So yeah, you can argue about that it wouldn’t be art but then you would disagree with yourself and you would have to provide a working definition for art.
So your definition of consciousness wasn’t precise enough and you had to express your actual idea more clearly. Strange, it is almost as if having a conceptual idea of something and being able to express it well are too different things. So you caught on to my point about ai but you failed to see it to the end. Yeah a current ai wouldn’t be understood by people as conscious but my point was to express that you have to draw a line about what is conscious and what is not. Which is why I picked a face recognition camera. It is literally like saying, “if you think animals can be eaten, then are you eating human?”, obviously the person doesn’t expect you to eat humans. It is a rhetorical question. The real question would be “what is the difference between humans and animals? And why does it justify eating them?”. In this case, At which position does the meaty neural network that is my brain become conscious and different than the neural network in a program? Where is the line? Without that line your definition is vague and people will maybe agree with your definition without agreeing with your conceptual idea that you try to express. In other words, your definition doesn’t work. I really had to spoon feed you that one? Using 🤦♂️when you aren’t even able to understand rhetorical questions.
If you think you have now defined the difference between an ai and a human, why humans are and ai is not conscious. Your Wakefulness definition isn’t making it clear when you would grant something the title of consciousness. I mean when is something wakeful or is actually perceiving the world. (I mean interact with the world is obviously already the case, chatgtp has written poor legal defenses and cause some good laughter, there are cyber security ai products that try to identify and report attacks on a network,…). At which point does “detecting Malware” become “perceiving Malware”? That was my point. So you haven’t answered it at all.
Piss Jesus is Art, the message itself & if people agree with it or not is completely irrelevant. Art is just as I said previously. Enough said.
Here are some criteria for a good definition:
Focus: The definition should exclude non-essentials.
Conciseness: The definition should be as concise as possible.
Clarity: The definition should be clear and unambiguous.
AI is nothing but an algorithm, 1 & 0’s that is all. Now stop trying to apply crap to AI that simple doesn’t. Go do some research by yourself and learn the difference between ANNs/SNNs and a human brain because I’m not your god damn teacher.
I’ve lost all interest in this conversation, stay confused.
So culture is literally everything. Every human action within a society is part of the culture of the society. So I can say something like “the USA has a communistic culture” while the USA is by far more capitalistic than communistic and that sounds like your definition of culture makes the word mean nothing.
Yeah a good definition defines what is needed and not more, but your definitions don’t define the essentials.
You are confusing my challenge again. My argument isn’t that there aren’t currently no differences or that those differences will ever disappear. My argument is how and why do those differences matter in identifying whether or not they are conscious. Which is important and essential in understanding consciousness because it is literally about what is.
I am not confused but you seemed easily confused over my criticm of your poorly expressed views and ideas (and art).