Yah. My BS counter is clicking quite a lot with this one.
You can’t force someone into surgery against their will. No hospital or doctor would do that. It would be a major crime. The surgeon, anesthesiologist, who knows how many others, would go to prison! That kind of crime.
The company may have coerced her, with threats of lawsuits. But that’s very different. And the article completely avoids any mention of exactly how she was forced to go through with it. If that information was included, it would only make the company look worse. I can’t think of why it would be left out, given the narrative they’re creating here.
There is a lot missing from this story.
I’d bet she took a some kind of settlement that included payment and a form of NDA.
No. Force is when there are no threats. The “or else” goes away. There are no other options. It’s only “this is happening”.
If a toddler is refusing to wear their shoes. Taking away their toys isn’t force. It’s coercion. Force would be, grabbing their leg and putting their shoe on, no matter how much they scream or cry.
Forcing an adult to do something, is a very extreme action. Reserved exclusively for police, and even they have limits. Even the police can’t force you to have surgery.
Forcing someone, is a massive escalation. It’s often the difference between physical violence and not.
I hope it never happens to you. It’s a very different kind of experience.
That has no additional information. I’m not saying the story is made up. Just that it leaves out a lot of important details about what exact mechanism was used to “force” her.
If she’s insured, she would lose her insurance, if her medical care is being provided at no cost from the state through medicare she would lose that, so, they really leave the person no choice. Show up and have this fucking thing removed, or lose any future medical care whatsoever. I mean, it’s still a choice, sure. No one forces anyone to eat or drink either, Steve.
That’s speculation. They seem like reasonable possibilities, but we don’t know because it wasn’t explained.
At worse, all that is coercion. Well mostly just natural consequences really. Still not force.
People can absolutely be forced to eat or drink. It’s been done in the past, when inmates go on a hunger strike. Half a dozen people strap them down, force a feeding tube down their throats. If lucky, they’d be sedated first.
They aren’t reasonable possibilities, because Medicare covers everyone over 65 regardless of their medical history and ACA health insurance plans are required to enroll all applicants regardless of age or medical history.
The latter can raise your premium if you smoke tobacco. That’s literally the only power of “coercion” they have available. All your other choices are off-limits.
I think you and @Steve@communick.news (and @downpunxx@kbin.social ) might have missed the part where the woman is Australian and this whole thing took place in Australia, where there is universal healthcare.
The articles point out the company went bankrupt and her doctors advised her to remove the implant. It says she was willing to pay to keep it, and suggests this could have been avoided if another company could have taken over device maintainance.
All of which suggests that the device was removed because it could no longer be maintained, despite her willingness to pay.
Insurance can totally refuse future medical care until the implant is removed, especially if leaving it in poses a serious risk. Perfectly valid way to get her to have it removed without physically forcing someone to undergo surgery.
No, they can’t do that. Insurance can’t just randomly decide to change all of their contracts on a whim.
Insurance companies are shitty, and dealing with them sucks, but there are legal rules they have to follow, and just deciding unilaterally to not cover healthcare isn’t an option for a paying customer.
Yah. My BS counter is clicking quite a lot with this one.
You can’t force someone into surgery against their will. No hospital or doctor would do that. It would be a major crime. The surgeon, anesthesiologist, who knows how many others, would go to prison! That kind of crime.
The company may have coerced her, with threats of lawsuits. But that’s very different. And the article completely avoids any mention of exactly how she was forced to go through with it. If that information was included, it would only make the company look worse. I can’t think of why it would be left out, given the narrative they’re creating here.
There is a lot missing from this story.
I’d bet she took a some kind of settlement that included payment and a form of NDA.
People being contractually obligated to undergo medically unnecessary surgery is still an intolerable atrocity.
in other words - forced
No. Force is when there are no threats. The “or else” goes away. There are no other options. It’s only “this is happening”.
If a toddler is refusing to wear their shoes. Taking away their toys isn’t force. It’s coercion. Force would be, grabbing their leg and putting their shoe on, no matter how much they scream or cry.
Forcing an adult to do something, is a very extreme action. Reserved exclusively for police, and even they have limits. Even the police can’t force you to have surgery.
Hair splitting
Forcing someone, is a massive escalation. It’s often the difference between physical violence and not.
I hope it never happens to you. It’s a very different kind of experience.
Your bullshit counter is broken, Steven
here’s the link from MIT technology review : https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/05/25/1073634/brain-implant-removed-against-her-will/
here’s their imprimatur from the MIT itself : https://news.mit.edu/1995/tech-review-0201
I’d have that clicking checked out
That has no additional information. I’m not saying the story is made up. Just that it leaves out a lot of important details about what exact mechanism was used to “force” her.
If she’s insured, she would lose her insurance, if her medical care is being provided at no cost from the state through medicare she would lose that, so, they really leave the person no choice. Show up and have this fucking thing removed, or lose any future medical care whatsoever. I mean, it’s still a choice, sure. No one forces anyone to eat or drink either, Steve.
That’s speculation. They seem like reasonable possibilities, but we don’t know because it wasn’t explained.
At worse, all that is coercion. Well mostly just natural consequences really. Still not force.
People can absolutely be forced to eat or drink. It’s been done in the past, when inmates go on a hunger strike. Half a dozen people strap them down, force a feeding tube down their throats. If lucky, they’d be sedated first.
They aren’t reasonable possibilities, because Medicare covers everyone over 65 regardless of their medical history and ACA health insurance plans are required to enroll all applicants regardless of age or medical history.
The latter can raise your premium if you smoke tobacco. That’s literally the only power of “coercion” they have available. All your other choices are off-limits.
I think you and @Steve@communick.news (and @downpunxx@kbin.social ) might have missed the part where the woman is Australian and this whole thing took place in Australia, where there is universal healthcare.
I did miss that.
Seems there are fewer reasons for her to give it up.
In the US, you can’t lose your health insurance based on your medical history.
Pretty much the only way for an individual to lose their health insurance is by leaving their employer, if they have employer-provided insurance.
Non-employer-provided plans are required to enroll anyone who wants enroll.
The articles point out the company went bankrupt and her doctors advised her to remove the implant. It says she was willing to pay to keep it, and suggests this could have been avoided if another company could have taken over device maintainance.
All of which suggests that the device was removed because it could no longer be maintained, despite her willingness to pay.
Insurance can totally refuse future medical care until the implant is removed, especially if leaving it in poses a serious risk. Perfectly valid way to get her to have it removed without physically forcing someone to undergo surgery.
No, they can’t do that. Insurance can’t just randomly decide to change all of their contracts on a whim.
Insurance companies are shitty, and dealing with them sucks, but there are legal rules they have to follow, and just deciding unilaterally to not cover healthcare isn’t an option for a paying customer.