No, I know people prefers veganism due to ethical reasons. But the unfortunate fact is that there is always someone somewhere suffering, and in all honest, I’m down to reducing the overproduction of meat, and ensuring humane treatment, but stopping meat production just results all those animals being left to die on their own devices, which in turn, is more cruel I feel, considering most of those animals are at this point dependant on humans.

This is quite the point I tried to make. Yeah, at this poi t beans are the only plant protein that I get even decent. Never heard of a black bean burger, to be honest, it won’t be the first recipe I’ll be looking with my cooking record.

And for tofu. I know it isn’t originally meat replacement, and I’ve seen dishes that look amazing, but I still have trust issues when it comes to tofu. Maybe I need to retry some time if I encounter it in a (proper) buffet sometime. Still, I don’t trust it. I haven’t been a fan of shrooms either, and they just wasn’t my thing even now, when I recently tried to cook some. My SO liked the muahroom sauce though, so it wasn’t just about my inability to cook them.

I think I’ll try that, even though blackeyed ones are not my favourite beans (I feel I never get the consistency of them right). Also, I might need to try these by myself, or figure out a way to make gluten free tortillas that don’t crumble when slightly looked at, as my SO has gluten allergy.

Also, might need to keep cumin in mind, when making beans.

Seems believable. But to my understanding, people did either hunt before, or began hunting during the same perioid. And yeah, for the meat people ate what was available, when it was available. Meat still played a big role, and perhaps in peoples minds (like mine) the part is very exaggarated due to it being a matter of celebration, when the hunt ended successfully. The celebration of meat might also be one of the leading reasons why our food industry has evolved so meat-centric. None the less, good to be reminded/educated myself.

I’d also imagine that hunting tribes were more dominant over those who exclusively foraged. Not because they ate meat, but because they were more prestieged in killing.

And no, I don’t want to be “true nature”, but I’d rather eat more balanced foods, which was one of the points this thread eventually started.

And I’m saying that I don’t like the meat replacers. You have not suggested any recipe that would, by default, fall in to the category of not removing the meat, and my problem is not that you think saying “just make pasta wothout a meat” is a new recipe. My problem is that if I want an option to find something to build a meal around, meat is the best option, because that is available, and easy to make taste good, a vegans answer is “just make whatever you would do, and remove the meat”. Vegetable soup is not a recipe, because soup in of itself is so varied dish, that it’s not just “throw carrot in water and boil”. Vegetable soups fo have names, and you have provided none. I, however, mentioned that I like a sor of vegetable soup: the bean and tomato soup. You can google a recipe, and get quite consistent results that quite consistently have a recognizable common recipe.

I am perfectly willing to find vegetarian meals that nourish me, but I have no interest to become a vegan, partly because culture is hostile. And if you didn’t know, hostility rarely welcomes new people in.

As for vegan “meat-free options flourishing”, they do because some people feel more incentiviced to eat meatless, and perhaps the quality has probably improved. However, for people who loke the taste of meat, and are not willing to compromise that, you need to provide a good curry by a name, because if I search for curry, I get loads of good curry recipes with chicken, pork and meat, instead of the “OG” curry that, allegedly, does not have meat. What is the protein in that curry? Is it lentils? Is it chia beans? Nobody knows, it’s just meatless.

I am ready to try vegan, but by experience I’ve been birned too many times by asking for the foods that are marketed towards carnivores, but are vegan, that I am not willing to eat meat replacements. And every time I ask if there is a recipe, every time I suggest that I’d be willing to try a meal thst is “accidentally vegan”, I am bombarded with “well we have this meat replacer…” or “just make these foods but not with meat”.

Tofu is something I don’t like, because I associate it with meat replacements, even though I am aware that that particular “meat replacer” has been used for long before meat needed to be “replaced”. I just don’t fancy those foods.

Now, for lentils or chickpeas. How the fuck does one spice them? How can you make them taste good? Beans are easy peasy, you can spice them pretty much like meat, but with more herbs than pepper. That is why I want recipes. I want references. I want to add options. And yes, I will still eat meat, because that is readily available, easy to make and tastes good.

Oh, and to add to the mix: my SO can’t consume pasta due to allergies, so there is that. Do you know how hard it is to bake, when wheat flour is the main baking ingredient for anything slightly puff?

And for you to change your mindset, I’m not saying “consume meat, heretic”, I’m saying if you want people to try vegan foods, don’t market them as vegan foods. The vegan market is so fixated on “meat replacements” that they’ve forgotten that traditionally (accidentally) vegan foods can be used as a base to create more interesting culinary options, rather that “compromising the meat”.

Pre-history. This happened during the time human figured out how to work with fire, and started consuming cooked meat. The cooked meat itself was not what made human start “socializing”, but it introduced something no other animal did: waiting. To fill the void, people started to fill the time with what we now call culture. It is part of our evolutionary history.

None the less, in my first post I spesifically pointed out that I am not looking for “just remove meat”, which was the point. And your answer was “well these foods are good if you just remove the meat”. That is the issue why you do have issues to convert people to eat vegan: Instead of pointing out WHAT in WHICH cousine is originally meatless, you prefer to ignore the idea that it’s hard to start searching the vegetarian cousine, if the available cousine around you is based on “we’ll build this around meat”, and “Just build it around meat, and then replace or remove the meat”. This is the modern western viewpoint, and I am looking to break that for myself.

As per the other commentor suggested, I will look in to lentils in Indian cousine. However, I find that the modern vegetarian cousine has stagnated because of the need to sell “meatlesd meat”. Making a good food is about not making compromises. Not “deciding to just drop the meat”. I have tried a lot of “vegan options”, and as said, I am not looking to turn vegan. That is why I can decide NOT to compromise when it comes to meat. I, however, am open to try vegan cousine that, simply said is not “better by just adding meat”. And if you want to convert people to veganism, you need to change of mindset. You need to relize that people who eat meat are not willing to compromise with the meat, when they have already tried that cardboard they call “vegan meat”.

A recipe is a start.

This sounds more like what I’m looking for. Might be worth a try. Thanks.

Same to you. This is why people who eat mainly meat don’t even consider vegan food. All vegans seem to be fixated upon replacing the meat, when the answer for vegetarian food that tastes good is to have recipes that don’t try to mimic meat diet.

Just one recipe. Is that too much?

And that’s why I’m still very carnivorous.

There is always a design of a mean. The origin of a meal. And when it comes to health, there almost every time has to be protein. Most naturally to humans, who started to reach their human nature by cooking the meat they’ve captured, and builing a culture while waiting for that food to cook, most common source of protein is meat. Thus, most of the meals tend to be born from the meat being a center piece, which is then extended with everything else.

There, however, are many means (that I would like to know about), that have originated from the lack of access to meat, yet with the need for the culinaristic taste in mind. These are the meals I am lookong for.

As said: not removing the meat, not replacing the meat but not in the need for the meat. This is a concept every vegetarian wants to ignore. I am not looking to becoming vegan, or replacing my meats with replacements. I am looking to balance my meat with originally vegetarian recipes. Partly because of health reason, but also becaise I also want to have a collection of recipes for carnivores, that does not sound repulsive.

I repeat: not to remove, not to replace, but designed from the beginnig around something other than meat. Considering all the replies I tend to get to these requirements tend o be “just drop the meat m’kay”, I’m starting to doupt if there is a way to properly design a meal without centering it around the meat.

Baguette un quartre?

As a carnivorous fattie, I do care about nutrition. And in all fairness, I’m open to suggestions for naturally vegetarian foods.

Now, before I get a list of “vegan beef and tofu”, what I mean by naturally vegetarian, is foods that don’t include tofu (which I personally don’t just like), or need to advertise being vegan. I am looking for foods that, from the beginning of the time, have never had meat removed, or replaced. I want “accidentally vegetarian” -foods.

My current favourite is bean-tomato soup, but it gets rather one note.

4.50 from Pentagon

Well, it might be some weird russian naming convention. I’ve understood that people have hard time reading Tolstoi and Dostojevsky and kind, because a single character in those books have up to seven names, because it’s part of russian culture. And apparently those nsmes are completely logical to every other character in the stories.

Then again, I’m not sophisticated enough to have read anything from them, but that’s what I’ve gathered from how other people speak about those books.

I live in a nordic country, very proud of it’s nature, and I know bus drivers.

In all honesty, I’d not be surprised if these cases were isolated, but that has been the greivance of these drivers.

The alternatives to this would be a heated hall, or finding a way to power the heating with renewable energy, but then again, diesel is cheaper than the alternative, and most of the passengers have no idea. There isn’t any proper sanvtions to incentivice not doing this, and considering our current ruling parties, probably won’t be either, but I consider this to be something that should be more talked about.

Interesting tidbit about public transport: there are electric busses. Those busses are used in the northern hemisphere, mainly to advertise to the public how “eco friendly the company is” to consumers. Those busses are heated by diesel aggrigators, and require to burn more fuel than what driving a diesel bus would need for the routes. And apparently diesel busses do not require this kind of upkeep when on standby.

…and then rebuild it.

I could swear there was a comic strip about this…

There is also “Owncast”, but it seems to suffer from the same issue that peertube does; there is no integrated revenue system for the streamer, so there is little reason to put effort in to the quality, as well as it being fairly unknown, so even if you set up donos etc. the audience isn’t there.

The discoverability don’t help, since there isn’t really s good way to filter out all the “24/7 radio” -streams, so even if you actively follow the frontpage, or a category, you have to skim trough them manually. Also, there is no proper language filter (at least if you don’t have an account), and it seems it’s more popular with non-english speaking streamers.

Because banning plastic straws is more visible to consumer, and takes less from the profit margin of the companies?

“We have built a bomb shelter, that can withstand a bombing, underneath the hospital, and believe the enemy is using these facilities. Instead of surgical flushing strike of these areas, which we clearly have the floorplsns for since we built it, we decided to bomb the building that was full of civilians that clearly could not utilize the shelter if our claim was true, knowing that the enemy command center is built exclusively to withstand said bombing”

Yeah, there are 3 sides to this war: IDF, Hamas and the civilians, and it seems two of those sides are having a competition on how many of the third side they can kill. I’d say both Paleastine and Israel deserves to be free of the warmongering leaders, because as much as people stand for Palestine. Sure, the first thing should be to stop the assaults that extend to the Palestinian side of the border, but after the seize fire has been reached, I wouldn’t mind seeing the leadership of the both warmongering terrorist agencies (IDF and Hamas) being systematically dismanteled from inside.

And if you feel “Hamas is neccessary”, well, Hamas was the group that provided the flimsy excuse for the IDF to use to attack this tiime around by attacking an international civilian event. Palestine deserves better than Hamas.

[EDITS]: adding few clarifying words to point out the leaderships problems on both sides have existed for a longer time.

Well, in my country they’ve replaced the straws on those 2dl juice boxes by a flimsy paper straw that disintegrate with any contact with any liquid, and can’t punch trough the tiny METALLIC seal for the straw hole. These useless paperrolls are packed in pladtic, and gued to the side of the box…