I figure that payment records is the closest we can get to due process. ICE wears masks to avoid retribution, and many of their victims will be killed to ensure their silence. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out a better way to track ICE membership, but I can’t think of it.
Yeah but the point of due process (especially since you specifically mentioned executions), is to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the person did the thing they’re accused of.
Otherwise, you make mistakes and you kill innocent people. Due process includes gathering the evidence you mentioned, but then also making sure that it’s real and valid and not just someone who didn’t like their neighbor so reported them or what have you
That is why ICE is problematic, because they deliberately try to avoid being identified. At some point, we have to choose: do we allow many members of ICE live because of their duplicity, or do we remove them from society, despite not having much information?
It isn’t a great situation. That is why collecting records is important, so that we can obtain a reasonable justice. After having an answer of “Did they serve ICE?” of yes or no, it becomes possible to indict ICE as a class of war criminal. ICE certainly wouldn’t even bother to check for citizenship before sending children abroad without parents, court orders, nor consent, so it is reasonable to have a relatively low standard for whether ICE staff should die. They are effectively genocidal traffickers by choice, and at some point, the restraint of mercy becomes foolishness.
The evil of ICE is corrosive like that, it affects everyone in their vicinity. Unfortunately, an end to a civil war where ICE is allowed to live, just means that they get to continue corroding our humanity decades after, as would their families in the centuries to come. It is better to commit the evil of execution against ICE, in order to prevent their evil by choice from growing strong in the garden of our society.
I agree. I just think we need to be careful about calling for foregoing due process.
Due process is also important in order to make sure that the person’s punishment sticks (not execution as that one obviously sticks). Because you might not care about the rule of law, but the next guy might. Or the judge ruling over the person’s appeal might.
You might not allow them to appeal, but whoever comes next might, and if you didn’t do shit right, they can have all of the charges thrown out. And possibly, rightfully so.
I figure that payment records is the closest we can get to due process. ICE wears masks to avoid retribution, and many of their victims will be killed to ensure their silence. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out a better way to track ICE membership, but I can’t think of it.
Yeah but the point of due process (especially since you specifically mentioned executions), is to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the person did the thing they’re accused of.
Otherwise, you make mistakes and you kill innocent people. Due process includes gathering the evidence you mentioned, but then also making sure that it’s real and valid and not just someone who didn’t like their neighbor so reported them or what have you
There are no innocent employees collecting checks from DHS.
What an idiotic, reductionist take.
The vast majority of people who work there are apolitical bureaucrats just trying to make ends meet.
Making ends meet by facilitating crimes against humanity, knowingly.
That is why ICE is problematic, because they deliberately try to avoid being identified. At some point, we have to choose: do we allow many members of ICE live because of their duplicity, or do we remove them from society, despite not having much information?
It isn’t a great situation. That is why collecting records is important, so that we can obtain a reasonable justice. After having an answer of “Did they serve ICE?” of yes or no, it becomes possible to indict ICE as a class of war criminal. ICE certainly wouldn’t even bother to check for citizenship before sending children abroad without parents, court orders, nor consent, so it is reasonable to have a relatively low standard for whether ICE staff should die. They are effectively genocidal traffickers by choice, and at some point, the restraint of mercy becomes foolishness.
The evil of ICE is corrosive like that, it affects everyone in their vicinity. Unfortunately, an end to a civil war where ICE is allowed to live, just means that they get to continue corroding our humanity decades after, as would their families in the centuries to come. It is better to commit the evil of execution against ICE, in order to prevent their evil by choice from growing strong in the garden of our society.
I agree. I just think we need to be careful about calling for foregoing due process.
Due process is also important in order to make sure that the person’s punishment sticks (not execution as that one obviously sticks). Because you might not care about the rule of law, but the next guy might. Or the judge ruling over the person’s appeal might.
You might not allow them to appeal, but whoever comes next might, and if you didn’t do shit right, they can have all of the charges thrown out. And possibly, rightfully so.