I wish it were that easy, but how do you find a common ground with a group that sucks Putin’s dick and genuinely believes that censorship is a good thing? Can’t even agree with them on the most universally agreeable concept that both are awful.
Got it in one! Same with any economic system though. The powerful will always take from the weak, will always find ways to make their own rules. Capitalistic competition works, but only in tandem with a government that reigns it in. Which democracy is supposed to have done. Impossible when our educational systems are crippled from toddler on up.
Younger people around here can’t know the America I knew. We scrutinized and denied mergers. We were taught as small children that monopolies were poison. We were taught of the robber barons and of the Gilded Age, taught about the labor struggles and deadly fights to get what we got. FFS, we had a choice in banks.
The very father of capitalism warned against monopolistic behavior. Bet you won’t hear Adam Smith quoted in school. Someone might read The Wealth of Nations, get anti-oligarchy notions.
I remember an 8th-grade teacher schooling us on how corrupt Mexico was because 20% of the people held 80% of the wealth. We were fucking appalled at the injustice. Imagine that. I’d kill or die for that “imbalance” in America today.
And BTW, my primary education was in Tulsa, OK. Not exactly a bastion of liberalism.
For one bright moment we had Lina Khan, Biden’s FTC chair, fighting hard. My fucking hero. First thing I thought when I awoke to a second Trump win, “There she goes. Our last, best hope.”
Same with any economic system though. The powerful will always take from the weak, will always find ways to make their own rules. Capitalistic competition works, but only in tandem with a government that reigns it in. Which democracy is supposed to have done.
Yeah, so maybe use an economic system that does not allow a bunch of people to accumulate the wealth of thousands?
Its pretty clear that “democracy” wont be working when to protect it you have to put in a stupid amount of man hours by volunteers and organizers.
Which then, can and will be, wiped out in one dinner party with one of the good ol’ boys.
This is working as intended.
Impossible when our educational systems are crippled from toddler on up.
Again, the issues are so much deeper, and more long standing than “toddler on up.”
The defunding of education is intentional.
This is not a flaw in the system, this is not a recent phenomenon, this was planned for decades.
Younger people around here can’t know the America I knew. We scrutinized and denied mergers. We were taught as small children that monopolies were poison. We were taught of the robber barons and of the Gilded Age, taught about the labor struggles and deadly fights to get what we got. FFS, we had a choice in banks.
Your oligarchs were older, more traumatised by mass leftist movements, their power was less concentrated.
Then they started out what they could get away with, and have not stopped since. They will keep taking, until there is nothing left to take, and then they will not stop.
Your schooling was propaganda. There was never any intention for the talks about freedom and democracy to amount to anything.
For one bright moment we had Lina Khan, Biden’s FTC chair, fighting hard. My fucking hero. First thing I thought when I awoke to a second Trump win, “There she goes. Our last, best hope.”
These are people who are at best trying to keep up appearances. But don’t think at all that they want anything to be better for you.
At best they are trying to keep up appearances of that system you were taught about at school.
Yes and the US is much more socialist than the pure capitalist hell people claim it to be, while Europe’s great social democracies still run on capitalism.
There’s NO exemplar of pure capitalism or pure socialism to point to. Anything worth having is a blend of the two, and 99.99% of what is needed on this topic is to figure out how to move the US from 12% socialist to 18% socialist, while Europe contends with how it’s going to pay for 22% socialism.
Any actually helpful words on that? Anybody?! … Back to arguing about ridiculous ideals then.
I think it’s a little funny that you’re arguing for percentages while claiming we already have that and look how great that is.
A key element that makes it socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, we don’t have close to that in any of the countries you’re talking about. Social programs are not socialism
The main issue with these online communism vs capitalism debates is that people seem to always take the most extremist position of each ideology.
Marx was in favor of being paid for your hard work, and Adam Smith hated monopolies and the accumulation of wealth.
We can both agree that we hate oligarchs and dictators and find a common ground in between.
I wish it were that easy, but how do you find a common ground with a group that sucks Putin’s dick and genuinely believes that censorship is a good thing? Can’t even agree with them on the most universally agreeable concept that both are awful.
I really like this take. I pray it’s the attitude we adopt for the midterms.
All the capitalism haters around here kill me. Ahem.
What you are experiencing is not capitalism, it is oligarchy.
Always get downvoted, never got a single answer: Tell me about your economic system where the money doesn’t flow to the top.
Is oligarchy not the logical result of capitalism with inadequate restraint?
Got it in one! Same with any economic system though. The powerful will always take from the weak, will always find ways to make their own rules. Capitalistic competition works, but only in tandem with a government that reigns it in. Which democracy is supposed to have done. Impossible when our educational systems are crippled from toddler on up.
Younger people around here can’t know the America I knew. We scrutinized and denied mergers. We were taught as small children that monopolies were poison. We were taught of the robber barons and of the Gilded Age, taught about the labor struggles and deadly fights to get what we got. FFS, we had a choice in banks.
The very father of capitalism warned against monopolistic behavior. Bet you won’t hear Adam Smith quoted in school. Someone might read The Wealth of Nations, get anti-oligarchy notions.
I remember an 8th-grade teacher schooling us on how corrupt Mexico was because 20% of the people held 80% of the wealth. We were fucking appalled at the injustice. Imagine that. I’d kill or die for that “imbalance” in America today.
And BTW, my primary education was in Tulsa, OK. Not exactly a bastion of liberalism.
For one bright moment we had Lina Khan, Biden’s FTC chair, fighting hard. My fucking hero. First thing I thought when I awoke to a second Trump win, “There she goes. Our last, best hope.”
Yeah, so maybe use an economic system that does not allow a bunch of people to accumulate the wealth of thousands?
Its pretty clear that “democracy” wont be working when to protect it you have to put in a stupid amount of man hours by volunteers and organizers.
Which then, can and will be, wiped out in one dinner party with one of the good ol’ boys.
This is working as intended.
Again, the issues are so much deeper, and more long standing than “toddler on up.”
The defunding of education is intentional.
This is not a flaw in the system, this is not a recent phenomenon, this was planned for decades.
Your oligarchs were older, more traumatised by mass leftist movements, their power was less concentrated.
Then they started out what they could get away with, and have not stopped since. They will keep taking, until there is nothing left to take, and then they will not stop.
Your schooling was propaganda. There was never any intention for the talks about freedom and democracy to amount to anything.
These are people who are at best trying to keep up appearances. But don’t think at all that they want anything to be better for you.
At best they are trying to keep up appearances of that system you were taught about at school.
That system does not exist, and they hate you.
Agreed. For years I’ve been saying that without well maintained controls, the end result of capitalism and socialism will look pretty much the same.
Yes and the US is much more socialist than the pure capitalist hell people claim it to be, while Europe’s great social democracies still run on capitalism.
There’s NO exemplar of pure capitalism or pure socialism to point to. Anything worth having is a blend of the two, and 99.99% of what is needed on this topic is to figure out how to move the US from 12% socialist to 18% socialist, while Europe contends with how it’s going to pay for 22% socialism.
Any actually helpful words on that? Anybody?! … Back to arguing about ridiculous ideals then.
I think it’s a little funny that you’re arguing for percentages while claiming we already have that and look how great that is.
A key element that makes it socialism is worker ownership of the means of production, we don’t have close to that in any of the countries you’re talking about. Social programs are not socialism
Did you really just make a purist gripe in a comment thread about how people deal too much in the extreme forms of these concepts? Funny, indeed.
No that’s not what happened