I am someone who is against opinion pieces in general, regardless of the content. Nate Silver also has an argument against them: the main difference with an opinion piece and normal journalism is that opinions don’t need to be fact checked. In which case there’s no reason for them to exist. If the argument cannot survive fact checking, it shouldn’t be published.
Opinions, columns, and editorials are all traditional news formats where a known personality gives their take on current events. Basically you can’t “fact check” someone’s commentary because they’re not reporting factual takes on current events, and you can’t really objectively say “your analogy to this historical event is not analogous enough” for instance because there isn’t really measures for these things. Nate Silver’s argument against them is itself an opinion that can’t be fact checked. “Fact checking” itself is also determined by the ideology you’re choosing to determine facts by or even which specific facts are chosen to be highlighted in an article. What is and what ought isn’t something that you can simply fact check.
The fact that it’s “traditional” is not a good reason to keep something around despite the negative consequences. The fact is, most news consumers do not know about the lower editorial standards of opinion articles, so opinion pieces have been a significant source of misinformation. This is how we get Jim Carey writing about climate skepticism in a major newspaper.
What’s so impossible about a fact-checked journalistic article entitled: “Should opinion pieces be eliminated?” Seems possible to me!
I think it’s just a silly proposal that’s hardly worth debating so I can see why it appeals to someone like Nate Silver. The notion that you could control misinformation by removing certain writing styles from circulation is incredibly stupid. Plus on social media everyone is an opinion writer now.
Did you notice how this opinion piece is littered with links sourcing what Kagan is talking about? This article is easily fact-checked. It’s not the author’s fault if you’re not willing to do your due diligence.
Then you are also intellectually lazy, because there is no way you are verifying the truth of every claim made in the articles you read. The role of newspapers is to inform people, not make random claims of dubious truth and have readers “do their own work”. It’s astounding that people are actually against basic fact checking.
I am aware you probably only had one of those three, but you knew it was opinion before you even came down to comment.
And even if you didn’t look at ANY of those, the headline itself indicates it is opinion:
“We should stop pretending”
Obviously this article was not going to be a fact-filled news piece that meets journalistic standards for news reporting: headlines for factual news do not contain imperative statements.
It seems to me that for someone as deeply and repeatedly offended by opinion as you claim to be, you are singularly ill-prepared to meet it, or even to spot it in the wild.
Just think. You could have seen the headline, recognized it was opinion, remembered you don’t like opinion, and been on your way. Instead you came down to comments to argue about it.
Funny, but that’s starting to look like that was your goal all along.
You seem to think my objection has something to do with whether it’s obvious that this particular piece is an opinion piece? I have no idea why you think this. Completely bizarre, and what an unnecessarily aggressive tone.
I am against opinion pieces because most consumers do not know that they have lower editorial standards, making them a big source of misinformation. If opinion pieces had the same journalistic standards, I would not be opposed to them.
That sounds like a media literacy problem, not a problem with opinion pieces themselves. I have a degree in journalism and the idea that anyone could somehow not know the difference between a straight news story and an opinion piece is baffling. Do we not have basic critical thinking skills anymore?
Indeed, it’s an empirical fact that most people cannot tell the difference between opinion and news.
Given how many people mistake opinion for news, I don’t think it’s realistic to solve this through media literacy. I think the major reputable outlets need to start applying journalistic standards to opinion pieces, including basic fact checking. I don’t know why anyone would be opposed to that.
So you’re a masochist, diving right into everything that bothers you most so that you can then take out your discontent on anyone who may be enjoying it for what it is – and then calling whatever points that out as “aggressive,” “bizarre,” and a “diatribe,” even as you make sweeping generalizations about the intellectual capacity of other readers. Got it. Carry on.
Lol. Enjoy your opinion piece that you hate so much, SkepticalButOpenMinded.
EDITED TO ADD: I’m literally LOLing over here because my last three posts got three downvotes each in the space of the same minute, just after I posted this one, and nothing since. Running alts to upvote and downvote your own shit is . . . well, nothing short of outright complimentary in this case. Thanks for letting me know how far I got under your skin, lol 🤣🤣🤣
I am someone who is against opinion pieces in general, regardless of the content. Nate Silver also has an argument against them: the main difference with an opinion piece and normal journalism is that opinions don’t need to be fact checked. In which case there’s no reason for them to exist. If the argument cannot survive fact checking, it shouldn’t be published.
Opinions, columns, and editorials are all traditional news formats where a known personality gives their take on current events. Basically you can’t “fact check” someone’s commentary because they’re not reporting factual takes on current events, and you can’t really objectively say “your analogy to this historical event is not analogous enough” for instance because there isn’t really measures for these things. Nate Silver’s argument against them is itself an opinion that can’t be fact checked. “Fact checking” itself is also determined by the ideology you’re choosing to determine facts by or even which specific facts are chosen to be highlighted in an article. What is and what ought isn’t something that you can simply fact check.
The fact that it’s “traditional” is not a good reason to keep something around despite the negative consequences. The fact is, most news consumers do not know about the lower editorial standards of opinion articles, so opinion pieces have been a significant source of misinformation. This is how we get Jim Carey writing about climate skepticism in a major newspaper.
What’s so impossible about a fact-checked journalistic article entitled: “Should opinion pieces be eliminated?” Seems possible to me!
I think it’s just a silly proposal that’s hardly worth debating so I can see why it appeals to someone like Nate Silver. The notion that you could control misinformation by removing certain writing styles from circulation is incredibly stupid. Plus on social media everyone is an opinion writer now.
Calling it “silly” and “incredibly stupid” is not an argument. I’m not even sure how to respond to this.
You’re wanting to restrict the styles of writing people can publish, it’s totalitarian in an absurd way.
Moral ought from an is. Just because news sources have decided to put opinion pieces in doesn’t mean that it is right that they did.
Did you notice how this opinion piece is littered with links sourcing what Kagan is talking about? This article is easily fact-checked. It’s not the author’s fault if you’re not willing to do your due diligence.
That’s just intellectually lazy. We should be able to process analysis that isn’t our own.
Then you are also intellectually lazy, because there is no way you are verifying the truth of every claim made in the articles you read. The role of newspapers is to inform people, not make random claims of dubious truth and have readers “do their own work”. It’s astounding that people are actually against basic fact checking.
This piece is CLEARLY labeled as opinion in the original and in the archive version linked above.
Additionally, the opinion label is even in the original URL:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/
I am aware you probably only had one of those three, but you knew it was opinion before you even came down to comment.
And even if you didn’t look at ANY of those, the headline itself indicates it is opinion:
“We should stop pretending”
Obviously this article was not going to be a fact-filled news piece that meets journalistic standards for news reporting: headlines for factual news do not contain imperative statements.
It seems to me that for someone as deeply and repeatedly offended by opinion as you claim to be, you are singularly ill-prepared to meet it, or even to spot it in the wild.
Just think. You could have seen the headline, recognized it was opinion, remembered you don’t like opinion, and been on your way. Instead you came down to comments to argue about it.
Funny, but that’s starting to look like that was your goal all along.
You seem to think my objection has something to do with whether it’s obvious that this particular piece is an opinion piece? I have no idea why you think this. Completely bizarre, and what an unnecessarily aggressive tone.
I am against opinion pieces because most consumers do not know that they have lower editorial standards, making them a big source of misinformation. If opinion pieces had the same journalistic standards, I would not be opposed to them.
That sounds like a media literacy problem, not a problem with opinion pieces themselves. I have a degree in journalism and the idea that anyone could somehow not know the difference between a straight news story and an opinion piece is baffling. Do we not have basic critical thinking skills anymore?
Indeed, it’s an empirical fact that most people cannot tell the difference between opinion and news.
Given how many people mistake opinion for news, I don’t think it’s realistic to solve this through media literacy. I think the major reputable outlets need to start applying journalistic standards to opinion pieces, including basic fact checking. I don’t know why anyone would be opposed to that.
Your words, not mine.
Kinda arrogant, IMO.
Do my words say that I didn’t notice it was an opinion piece or something? How is this related to your strange diatribe?
So you’re a masochist, diving right into everything that bothers you most so that you can then take out your discontent on anyone who may be enjoying it for what it is – and then calling whatever points that out as “aggressive,” “bizarre,” and a “diatribe,” even as you make sweeping generalizations about the intellectual capacity of other readers. Got it. Carry on.
What? I’m sorry I hurt your feelings but I don’t really understand what you’re so angry about.
Lol. Enjoy your opinion piece that you hate so much, SkepticalButOpenMinded.
EDITED TO ADD: I’m literally LOLing over here because my last three posts got three downvotes each in the space of the same minute, just after I posted this one, and nothing since. Running alts to upvote and downvote your own shit is . . . well, nothing short of outright complimentary in this case. Thanks for letting me know how far I got under your skin, lol 🤣🤣🤣