I dunno what kind of math games theyre playing with this “mass killing” definition lately but Ive seen it twice now. America is near or over 2 “mass shootings” a day and has been for a while. This “mass killing” metric seems to be an obvious attempt to hide the level of gun violence in the united states. Here is a good source I frequent to get a better idea of whats happening day to day.
Honestly, I have a whole lot of issues with how the data is presented and categorize with mass shootings all around.
Now pretty much however you look at the data, we have a major problem and probably multiple different but related major problems with gun violence in America that we are handling poorly and pretty much nowhere else in the world is experiencing the kinds of problems we have. So don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to minimize the importance of any of the categories of gun violence, I just want more clear statistics on what actually is happening so I don’t have to go sorting through a thousand different news articles, Wikipedia pages, press releases, etc. to get a full and clear picture of what’s actually happening.
Personally, I’d like to see specific stats on
The “classic” mass shooting, someone walks into a place like a school, mall, outdoor public area, concert venue, etc. and attempts to kill as many people as possible more-or-less indiscriminately.
I’d also like to see stats on planned/attempted mass shootings that get stopped before they properly get off the ground, whether police actually manage to act on a tip about a suspicious person, the shooter is unsuccessful and either doesn’t manage to shoot anyone or only shoots one person before being stopped which may keep it from being counted as a mass shooting
There’s also more target situations, domestics where someone shoots multiple family members, or situations like a gang-related drive-by, where the victims are chosen because of a specific relationship to the shooter.
There’s definitely some grey areas in-between, for example someone shooting up their own school, church, or workplace, because they would have some relationship or affiliation with the victims, but it’s somewhat more indiscriminate and they might behave more like the first category than second, or situations in which bystanders get shot, or where the shooter’s specific goal is one or several specific people but they are ok with other collateral damage, maybe they intend to kill their boss but end up shooting 7 other coworkers as well that get in their way, they didn’t set out to kill those other employees, if they happened to not be there or didn’t interfere that would have been fine by them, but they were also willing to do it if it came to that.
I’d also like to see the stats for total shots fired, how much ammo they were carrying, percent of ammo used, how many wounded, how many killed, how many times each victim was shot, types of firearms used, how those firearms were obtained, length of the incident, police response times, previous criminal/psych histories, etc.
Similarly stats on school shootings could use a bit more granularity, a columbine or sandy hook type situation is very different from a situation where a kid brings a gun to school to shoot a specific student or staff member, or from a situation where a shooting happens on school property even if it’s well outside of school hours and no students or faculty are present, etc. but often these sorts of situations will get lumped together into one school shooting category.
And that’s probably just scraping the tip of the iceberg. I could keep going with a whole lot of categories and stats I’d like to see but this comment is already getting too long.
And honestly it’s wild to me that some government agency or at least some non-profit or even a dedicated random person doesn’t seem to have really put together any decent spreadsheet with these incidents categorized and all of the stats. I’m almost certain it probably exists somewhere as the pet project of some CDC employee or something who’s unable to release it due to regulations, bureaucracy, political bullshittery, etc.
I dunno what kind of math games theyre playing with this “mass killing” definition lately but Ive seen it twice now. America is near or over 2 “mass shootings” a day and has been for a while. This “mass killing” metric seems to be an obvious attempt to hide the level of gun violence in the united states. Here is a good source I frequent to get a better idea of whats happening day to day.
The article explicitly addresses that, and even links to the same website:
Different groups count mass shootings and killings in different ways. Some, such as the Gun Violence Archive, include events in which multiple people are shot regardless of number of deaths, and so report much higher figures. Its tally for the year is 630 mass shootings.
I think the distinction is right in the wording, you can be shot and not killed. In your Wikipedia link they define a mass shooting as incidents where 2 out of 7 of their sources define it as a mass shooting, but 3 of those outlets don’t require killing to happen at all.
On top of that, in recent memory even the Vermont shooting where 3 Palestinian-Americans were shot it wouldn’t be called a mass shooting by that wiki link because they survived (albeit with severe problems) and it was one person short of the threshold.
That being said, the choice of specifying “killing” is sort of weird for outlets to make. If you shoot someone, your intent or expectation is usually for them to die.
I dunno what kind of math games theyre playing with this “mass killing” definition lately
If they didn’t broaden the definition they wouldn’t be able to include knife attacks in their article.
They aren’t attempting to hide the level of Gun Violence, they’re trying to get clicks by re-spinning the data.
Here is a good source I frequent to get a better idea of whats happening day to day.
GVA is decent but a lot of people don’t look past the number totals to try and understand the problem(s). The majority of the incidents recorded there look a lot like this one.
The salient details are depressingly familiar
Very Late at Night / Early in the Morning
Socioeconomically disadvantaged participants
Alcohol / Drugs involved
Illegally possessed Firearms
You can just walk down the list of incidents and pick them out over and over and over.
I dunno what kind of math games theyre playing with this “mass killing” definition lately but Ive seen it twice now. America is near or over 2 “mass shootings” a day and has been for a while. This “mass killing” metric seems to be an obvious attempt to hide the level of gun violence in the united states. Here is a good source I frequent to get a better idea of whats happening day to day.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
Another source;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2023
There sure as hell has been more than 30ish mass shootings
Honestly, I have a whole lot of issues with how the data is presented and categorize with mass shootings all around.
Now pretty much however you look at the data, we have a major problem and probably multiple different but related major problems with gun violence in America that we are handling poorly and pretty much nowhere else in the world is experiencing the kinds of problems we have. So don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to minimize the importance of any of the categories of gun violence, I just want more clear statistics on what actually is happening so I don’t have to go sorting through a thousand different news articles, Wikipedia pages, press releases, etc. to get a full and clear picture of what’s actually happening.
Personally, I’d like to see specific stats on
The “classic” mass shooting, someone walks into a place like a school, mall, outdoor public area, concert venue, etc. and attempts to kill as many people as possible more-or-less indiscriminately.
I’d also like to see stats on planned/attempted mass shootings that get stopped before they properly get off the ground, whether police actually manage to act on a tip about a suspicious person, the shooter is unsuccessful and either doesn’t manage to shoot anyone or only shoots one person before being stopped which may keep it from being counted as a mass shooting
There’s also more target situations, domestics where someone shoots multiple family members, or situations like a gang-related drive-by, where the victims are chosen because of a specific relationship to the shooter.
There’s definitely some grey areas in-between, for example someone shooting up their own school, church, or workplace, because they would have some relationship or affiliation with the victims, but it’s somewhat more indiscriminate and they might behave more like the first category than second, or situations in which bystanders get shot, or where the shooter’s specific goal is one or several specific people but they are ok with other collateral damage, maybe they intend to kill their boss but end up shooting 7 other coworkers as well that get in their way, they didn’t set out to kill those other employees, if they happened to not be there or didn’t interfere that would have been fine by them, but they were also willing to do it if it came to that.
I’d also like to see the stats for total shots fired, how much ammo they were carrying, percent of ammo used, how many wounded, how many killed, how many times each victim was shot, types of firearms used, how those firearms were obtained, length of the incident, police response times, previous criminal/psych histories, etc.
Similarly stats on school shootings could use a bit more granularity, a columbine or sandy hook type situation is very different from a situation where a kid brings a gun to school to shoot a specific student or staff member, or from a situation where a shooting happens on school property even if it’s well outside of school hours and no students or faculty are present, etc. but often these sorts of situations will get lumped together into one school shooting category.
And that’s probably just scraping the tip of the iceberg. I could keep going with a whole lot of categories and stats I’d like to see but this comment is already getting too long.
And honestly it’s wild to me that some government agency or at least some non-profit or even a dedicated random person doesn’t seem to have really put together any decent spreadsheet with these incidents categorized and all of the stats. I’m almost certain it probably exists somewhere as the pet project of some CDC employee or something who’s unable to release it due to regulations, bureaucracy, political bullshittery, etc.
deleted by creator
Yeah they define mass shootings as 4(?) Or more deaths. Injuries doesn’t count.
The article explicitly addresses that, and even links to the same website:
Interesting. I’m not American, but somehow I expected bigger numbers in Montana and Wyoming.
You’d need a scoped rifle and some amount of skill to pull off a mass shooting in Montana
I think the distinction is right in the wording, you can be shot and not killed. In your Wikipedia link they define a mass shooting as incidents where 2 out of 7 of their sources define it as a mass shooting, but 3 of those outlets don’t require killing to happen at all.
On top of that, in recent memory even the Vermont shooting where 3 Palestinian-Americans were shot it wouldn’t be called a mass shooting by that wiki link because they survived (albeit with severe problems) and it was one person short of the threshold.
That being said, the choice of specifying “killing” is sort of weird for outlets to make. If you shoot someone, your intent or expectation is usually for them to die.
If they didn’t broaden the definition they wouldn’t be able to include knife attacks in their article.
They aren’t attempting to hide the level of Gun Violence, they’re trying to get clicks by re-spinning the data.
GVA is decent but a lot of people don’t look past the number totals to try and understand the problem(s). The majority of the incidents recorded there look a lot like this one.
The salient details are depressingly familiar
You can just walk down the list of incidents and pick them out over and over and over.
https://abc30.com/central-fresno-deadly-shooting-two-men-killed-apartment-party/14141254/
https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/4-shot-house-party-over-100-minors-suspect-arrested-aurora/
https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina/winston-salem/winston-salem-woman-arrested-charged-after-multiple-people-shot-at-spott-bar-and-lounge-police-say/