there would always be an alternative to living in the UK - the other country.
Sucks if the other country also makes it hard to stay.
I don’t know how well anyone can support themselves on £18,600
If so, then that’s an admission that every British citizen should have the opportunity to earn more - enough to live on.
I suppose it’s not an unpopular opinion here on Lemmy, but probably is in a lot of the UK: IMHO spouse and children of a citizen should always be admitted into the country and treated without prejudice. If supporting someone in poverty is a drain on the nation, let it be same for spouse as for born citizen. If we should help people become productive workers: same for spouse as home born. If… etc
I know people exploit that with fake marriage and other ways, but, like many good things we do in the UK, the fact some exploit them doesn’t make them a bad thing, or worse than the alternative.
It definitely is an admission that we have failed with regards to lower incomes and we desperately need a living wage to replace the insufficient minimum wage. This increase in the minimum income to support a spousal visa is an admission that the previous amount was completely unliveable in parts of today’s UK.
I don’t believe it happens often, although I don’t have the numbers, that the system is exploited with fake marriage. From my experience, there are quite a lot of parts to the process that I would imagine being difficult to lie about. Opening the system up to allow all spouses entry without prejudice would absolutely mean it was abused though and while I am all for people bringing their foreign partners to the UK, relying on public money is not right. We simply cannot afford to support the influx of people - we’re failing the people that are already here! How can we manage to support more people that don’t meet these income requirements?
See, that’s where I see it the other way round. If we can’t support our own citizens, we still don’t kick them out; we do our best. (Sort of, anyway.) I think we should see spouses the same way: welcome them, consider them part of us, and then ask the questions about how can they live, just the same as we ask those questions for our own citizens.
Because the spouse is part of the family unit. Husband and wife are not completely independent persons. (Though we’re moving more that way as a culture, but I strongly disagree.) So we’re either welcoming or rejecting the family. It’s a bit like saying to a daughter in law, “you’re not really part of our family because you’re black. … But we’ll let you in if you’re absolutely certain never to be a burden on us.” And to the son (in this example), “If you choose to marry that… person, you’re on your own. Don’t count on your friends and relations any more. You can make lots of money and do what you like, or you can leave her and come back to the fold.”
Edit to add: if the example using ethnic prejudice seems unfair, you can read instead,
“You’re not really part of our family because you’re French…”
I think the point remains that our current public finances are crippled (for whatever reason) to the point that we are failing British citizens that are already here. Adding more strain to that, be it large or small, is only going to make things harder. We can’t complain about not getting a doctors appointment quick enough or that we have people living below the poverty line if we are going to admit yet more people that will be a burden on the state.
Like I said, there is another option in these scenarios on almost every occasion. I lived with my wife abroad for a period of time and we made the choice to come to the UK together. People, like us, choose this because things are better here than the alternative in a majority of the situations. Why does the responsibility lay on Britain rather than the other nation?
It’s a lovely ideal to suggest that we can welcome all to the UK with open arms, offer them help, training, work and all kinds of support. Once we no longer have people living in relative squalor who have no other choice but to live in the UK, I will absolutely agree with you.
Sucks if the other country also makes it hard to stay.
If so, then that’s an admission that every British citizen should have the opportunity to earn more - enough to live on.
I suppose it’s not an unpopular opinion here on Lemmy, but probably is in a lot of the UK: IMHO spouse and children of a citizen should always be admitted into the country and treated without prejudice. If supporting someone in poverty is a drain on the nation, let it be same for spouse as for born citizen. If we should help people become productive workers: same for spouse as home born. If… etc
I know people exploit that with fake marriage and other ways, but, like many good things we do in the UK, the fact some exploit them doesn’t make them a bad thing, or worse than the alternative.
It definitely is an admission that we have failed with regards to lower incomes and we desperately need a living wage to replace the insufficient minimum wage. This increase in the minimum income to support a spousal visa is an admission that the previous amount was completely unliveable in parts of today’s UK.
I don’t believe it happens often, although I don’t have the numbers, that the system is exploited with fake marriage. From my experience, there are quite a lot of parts to the process that I would imagine being difficult to lie about. Opening the system up to allow all spouses entry without prejudice would absolutely mean it was abused though and while I am all for people bringing their foreign partners to the UK, relying on public money is not right. We simply cannot afford to support the influx of people - we’re failing the people that are already here! How can we manage to support more people that don’t meet these income requirements?
See, that’s where I see it the other way round. If we can’t support our own citizens, we still don’t kick them out; we do our best. (Sort of, anyway.) I think we should see spouses the same way: welcome them, consider them part of us, and then ask the questions about how can they live, just the same as we ask those questions for our own citizens.
Because the spouse is part of the family unit. Husband and wife are not completely independent persons. (Though we’re moving more that way as a culture, but I strongly disagree.) So we’re either welcoming or rejecting the family. It’s a bit like saying to a daughter in law, “you’re not really part of our family because you’re black. … But we’ll let you in if you’re absolutely certain never to be a burden on us.” And to the son (in this example), “If you choose to marry that… person, you’re on your own. Don’t count on your friends and relations any more. You can make lots of money and do what you like, or you can leave her and come back to the fold.”
Edit to add: if the example using ethnic prejudice seems unfair, you can read instead, “You’re not really part of our family because you’re French…”
I think the point remains that our current public finances are crippled (for whatever reason) to the point that we are failing British citizens that are already here. Adding more strain to that, be it large or small, is only going to make things harder. We can’t complain about not getting a doctors appointment quick enough or that we have people living below the poverty line if we are going to admit yet more people that will be a burden on the state.
Like I said, there is another option in these scenarios on almost every occasion. I lived with my wife abroad for a period of time and we made the choice to come to the UK together. People, like us, choose this because things are better here than the alternative in a majority of the situations. Why does the responsibility lay on Britain rather than the other nation?
It’s a lovely ideal to suggest that we can welcome all to the UK with open arms, offer them help, training, work and all kinds of support. Once we no longer have people living in relative squalor who have no other choice but to live in the UK, I will absolutely agree with you.