• tryptaminev@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    The Israeli government is really happy to rope you and all other Jewish people outside of Israel along though. And too many unfortunately play that role happily.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      And too many unfortunately play that role happily.

      See? This is what I mean. If I just announced that I was Jewish to someone like you, you’d make me justify it by denouncing Israel. I shouldn’t have to do that. It should not be assumed that just because I’m a Jew, I support Israel. Frankly, that’s a form of racism.

      • qevlarr@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They’re saying you should blame Israel for that, not random people trying to find out who’s who

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Why not blame both? Why should they be trying to find out who’s who. If you found out someone was Turkish, would you immediately ask them if they supported Erdogan? If someone was Hungarian, would you try to find out if they supported Orban?

          I don’t know if you’re an American, but how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don’t support Trump because they’re trying to “find out who’s who?”

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yes, but do you have to justify yourself with half the Europeans you meet that you’re not one of the Trump supporters?

              • jj4211@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                During his presidency, yes. On a related note, when I would speak to someone in the UK during Boris Johnson, he would be careful to inject a bit of “Boris Johnson sucks, Brexit was dumb” to make his stance clear.

                Related, they sometimes assume I not only own a gun, but I’m armed at all times like some old west cowboy, depending on how little they deal with Americans day to day.

                  • jj4211@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Well, of course I didn’t have to clarify I wasn’t a supporter of President Trump while he wasn’t President…

                    I pretty much have to be prepared for assumptions about any dubious American move in the global stage, and America makes a lot of dubious moves.

              • AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Yes. Europeans tend to think Americans get the government we vote for and that we must like Trump since he was the president and isn’t going away. It’s ignorant, but I understand that they have this notion and I will, out of compassion and tolerance, explain that I am not a deranged bootlicking reactionary and do not support forever war, Christian nationalism or corporate hegemony.

          • eltimablo@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don’t support Trump because they’re trying to “find out who’s who?”

            This is already the case.

          • jarfil@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Isn’t that how it works anyway?

            Person A: “I am a [whatever]”

            Person B: “What do you think of [some thing about “whatever” I’ve recently seen on TV, and is possibly the only thing I know about it]?”

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yeah, except in the case of Jews, it’s “prove you’re not a Zionist.” So many times in my life. So many times. I have to prove I’m not a bad person because of something I can’t control and was born as.

              • FatCrab@lemmy.one
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                1 year ago

                This might be very idiosyncratic to how you engage with people or with whom. I’ve lived in the deep Midwest and in an east coast major city. My name is EXTREMELY jewish. I have literally never had to explain my position on Israel or zionism when introducing myself. If Israel comes up in conversation in one way or another? Sure, people have asked what my opinion is, as a Jewish person, on Israel or such and such events, but that’s pretty reasonable and I don’t think ever frontloaded with anything.

              • jarfil@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                What can I tell you, other than to avoid the kind of people who take something about you, and turn it into an attack. Also don’t bring up the topic yourself unless you want to defend it, and —however hard it is— try to “not attribute to malice, that which is simple ignorance”.

                There are also some rhetoric tricks you can use to return an attack, but you risk being perceived as a troublemaker.

      • YTG123@feddit.ch
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        1 year ago

        The Israeli government doesn’t even represent all Israelis, let alone all Jews. Does represent the vast majority unfortunately

      • tryptaminev@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        I dont mean you personally, but organizations that claim to represent the jewish people in various countries. For instance the American Jewish Committee that claims Jews critisizing Israel would be antisemites and tries to have the UN comittees dissolved that adress the human rights situation in Palestine. Or a bit larger but slightly more moderate the World Jewish Congress, that wants “to enhance solidarity among Jewish communities throughout the world and, recognizing the centrality of the State of Israel to contemporary Jewish identity, to strengthen the bonds of Jewish communities and Jews in the Diaspora with Israel”

        These organizations claim to represent Jewish people around the world and that they would be in favor of Israel and support Israel, especially in face of criticism.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jewish_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Sure, and white supremacists claim to represent all white people. They don’t and no one should assume that just because you’re white, you’re a white supremacist.

          • tryptaminev@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            Which i never did. You cannot deny the reality, that many Jewish people and organizations want to tie all Jewish people to Israel. It is the predominant view in the larger organizations, that are often recognized as spokespeople for the Jewish community in the respective country, continent or world.

            I also find it wrong, that Israel is claiming to be representative of the Jewish people as a whole and having a lot of organized support for it. The voices to the contrary need to organize and make themselves heard.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              And because of that, it’s justified for people to constantly expect me to prove I have no allegiance to Israel? Bullshit. I should not have to prove I don’t support apartheid just because I’m Jewish.

              • wahming@monyet.cc
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                1 year ago

                You shouldn’t HAVE to, in a perfect world. Unfortunately, the ones who are making it not a reality are the Jewish organizations

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  So it’s the Jews fault that all Jews have to justify to non-Jews that we’re not bad people? That’s what you’re really going with?

                  • novibe@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Bro everyone has been repeating this over and over:

                    No! It’s Israel’s fault.

                    Why are YOU blaming others for what Israel is doing to Jewish identity?

                  • wahming@monyet.cc
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                    1 year ago

                    Did you miss the other commentors explaining why that’s the case? I personally don’t do that, but I can understand why others do. As usual, blame the politicians