oldie meme but needed to bring this back due to recent incidents 😭
Me: “I like pancakes”
Lemmy: “Only a shitlib western imperialist would think that. Read more Lenin.”
Me: “I like waffles”
Lemmy: “HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO GO MY LIFE WITHOUT PANCAKES YOU OPPRESSIVE INSENSITIVE FUCK”
True, properly educated and vetted comrades would prefer blini.
I see more Motte-and-bailey fallacy.
I see less “I like pancakes” and more “I think pancakes are superior to waffles” from the first commenter.
Then the second commenter responds, “So you hate waffles?”
Then the first commenter retreats to “No, I just like pancakes. Why are you assuming what I’m saying? Don’t you understand I’m being nuanced?”
Also, nuance is one of the more recent words to have a new usage like literally, which can now mean figuratively. When people say their argument is nuanced they mean it is good or correct. It reminds me of the use objective to describe a person to pretend they don’t have biases to incorrectly validate their arguments.
me: lot of pancakes out there
you: actually i see more waffles
(with peace and love haha you make excellent points i just couldn’t resist)
In the context of this self-referencing observation, I would say, I see lots of waffles pretending to be pancakes.
i approve and adopt your extension of the metaphor
What…. This is on par with any kind of internet discourse. It’s pretty much why I hardly ever post prior to Lemmy. It doesn’t matter how well articulated the post, SOMEONE will find the need to correct or clarify unnecessarily.
it’s really sad because i take great pride and pleasure from reading other people’s thoughts and posts. but when i try to give back, it’s immediately jumped on by dogpilers and “oh you actually meant something else…” people. and when i do the bare minimum to defend myself, they slap back with the “okay buddy, sure” and downvote my defense so it’s invisible to other readers.
needless to say my blocklist is nearing 100 users.
Prior to the US election, there were many people that did this exact thing- only it was “oh yeah? Well… you support genocide!”
They’re rarely here anymore. Which is what was predicted that typically warranted their response to begin with.
Bravery is leaving both the ifunny and imgflip watermarks.
-“Russia should not invade a sovereign country, murder its citizens and deport their children.”
-“Umm, actually, the US were doing crimes in Syria and you should not support them.”
But by contrast
“We need to negotiate an end to the war on Ukraine.”
“Oh so you want to let Russia kill all Ukrainians?”
On Lemmy it’s more like:
“I don’t like pancakes.”
“Oh, so I suppose that waffles are perfect huh??”
Nah, it’s more like “you should delete windows now and get Linux”
I agree that conversations sometimes end up being about Linux, which is unfortunate. People seldom recommend installing BSD or other free systems, which is a shame. The lesson here is that we should all install OpenBSD.
Oh so you hate Linux, huh
Oh, so you hate BSD huh?
Oh, so you hate Plan9 huh?
how dare you say we piss on the poor
i never said that! i only piss on the MOON
Who’s more poor than the moon, though? It not just doesn’t have any money, it’s not even ALLOWED to own money!
One time I said AI porn was unethical (because it is) and people here thought I was calling for a ban on all porn. At no point did I say that porn was unethical as a rule, and if I did believe that I wouldn’t have mentioned AI at all.
It’d be nice if we could regulate porn in good faith. Every attempt to regulate it in the US has been an obvious attempt to shut it down, but it should be regulated like anything else. Sex toys, too. Lots of questionable substances are used in sex toys that probably shouldn’t be inserted into the human body.
Sex toys are not regulated in the us?! There are a ton of regulations in the EU unfortunately not the same in all countries but some even classify them as medical devices. There is also the standard ISO 3533 “Sex toys — Design and safety requirements for products in direct contact with genitalia, the anus, or both” which is not required at the moment? is still used as a guideline.
this shit pisses me off, my instinct is to say irrationally, but i feel it’s probably totally rational to have your own carefully chosen words used in such a hamfisted perversion
yesterday i made a post saying “hey look there’s a pattern to how ableist terms begin as descriptive or medical terms and its only later they are coopted as insults, the most recent of which is ‘neurodivergent’”
top comment? “dude stop telling us to stop using the word ‘neurodivergent.’” 30+ upvotes. and when i respond saying that actually making people abandon the word wasn’t my goal? downvotes.
like what even is the point of writing words if crusty ass debate lords insist on interpretation to mean the exact opposite 80% of the time?
The short answer is that the trend you are describing does not apply to the word neurodivergent because neurodivergent is not a medical term.
Neurodivergent is a nonmedical term that describes people whose brains develop or work differently for some reason. This means the person has different strengths and struggles from people whose brains develop or work more typically. While some people who are neurodivergent have medical conditions, it also happens to people where a medical condition or diagnosis hasn’t been identified.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/23154-neurodivergent
Your argument was a false equivalency that the r-slur and neurodivergent share the same origin and thus will share the same fate. The implication of such a line reasoning is that since all of these ableist words became known as insults we shouldn’t be concerned about the usage of any of them. In other words, legitimizing the r-slur and other ableist language because eventually neurodivergent will be as bad.
People in that thread explained how neurodivergent is fundamentally different. Neurodivergent is a nonmedical word people are choosing to describe themselves as that validates them as a opposed to a medical word that was chosen for them that pathologizes them. Your argument then attempted to dismiss this by saying all of these words have different origins. When in fact they have two, medical and nonmedical.
The euphemism treadmill argument presented by your meme attempts to ignore that distinction to make all the words seem equivalent. When in fact the words used before neurodivergent were always ableist because they were always hurtful even if that wasn’t initially recognized as such by neurotypical people using them.
Like trans and cis, neurodivergent and neurotypical acknowledge a difference without being opinionated about which side of that difference is normal or abnormal. These terms are opinionated about which side has privilege and which side does not. These kind of terms receive backlash from the people who find themselves in the privileged cis and neurotypical categories because they realize these labels exposes the power that comes from the privilege of being the default.
Rather than engaging in a good faith discussion about this privilege, those fearful that they will lose this privilege engage in bad faith discussions intended to undermine the mechanism that exposed that privilege. These discussions tend to involve fallacies and usage of words like nuance and objective to obscure what is really happening.
The problem for the people acting in bad faith now is, we’ve all done this song and dance multiple times now. We know what to look for. We will call it out. We get to keep telling the truth and using words that expose the truth.
two separate discussions.
i fully agree with everyone who is saying what you are saying here (including yourself). thank you! group A, call them. if you read those comments deeply, you will see i have responded with cheerful enthusiasm and accepted their contribution. i thank you for it here too.
other people, we’ll say group B (perhaps a smaller number but i never claimed it was 50/50) falsely just said “you are telling us not to use the word neurodivergent. stop it.”
please, im begging. i don’t want to be an ass and block you but if you come into a separate thread of mine to give your reading on dozens and dozens of comments, read all of them? :(
A large portion of the world is experiencing political polarization. I see the same things happening on Lemmy happen on other social media websites.
The “if you don’t agree with me you must have the exact opposite opinion” approach to debate seems to be more a problem of the participants than the platform.
i feel this problem might be worse on the fediverse because of the political communities that form around instances, e.g. .ml, .blahaj.zone, .world
Pretty much every time I dare to say anything negative about Russia or China I’m swarmed with illiterate tankie lemmings who jump into the conclusion that criticising one empire automatically means supporting the other empire.
Zzzzzz
Great. Another corpo-fascist centrist who doesn’t understand the Overton Window.
wow can’t believe this guy wants me to kiss nazis on the lips /s
I said don’t kiss Nazi ass. That’s not the same thing.
How can you not like waffles! That’s outrageous! I’m so triggered right now!
That’s a waffleturd take if I’ve ever seen one
You’re just a shill for Big Pancake!
I read that Big Pancake wants to leave the French Toast Accords
tbf, that heuristic works ~80% of the time, which is way higher than I’d like, but that’s the effect of polarization
And yet, you assumed an image on catbox would work on my device. Interesting.
skill issue, sorry
lol. It’s just iOS, voyager, vpn, and ad blocking are not conducive to seeing hosted images.
I’m on iOS, using voyager, proton vpn, and a 3rd party ad blocker and the image loaded just fine for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same. But sometimes they don’t.
I like Mlem a lot more than voyager. The only thing it isn’t as good at is videos. I’ve never had an issue with catbox on Mlem
Bruh, it’s so real. I made a comment that whenever I get messed up food at a restaurant, id rather just ask for a refund than ask for a replacement. Obviously there’s a lot of nuance in this comment, but I had people taking all kinds of meanings from it. One guy told me I was a complete asshole and some other stuff, just because I’d rather have a refund at the McDonald’s instead of asking the overworked, underpaid employees to remake my order as I sat in the drive-through, and so I wouldn’t have to pull over and wait even longer.
People just want to be pissed off and angry.
just because I’d rather have a refund at the McDonald’s instead of asking the overworked, underpaid employees to remake my order
Except what you actually said was if you ask for a replacement they’re going to spit in it, so you just threaten them with a charge back if they don’t refund you.
https://lemmy.ca/comment/13396935
The fact that you are lying about what you said seems to indicate you understand why you may have come off as an asshole.
Well of course I’d do a chargeback to McDonald’s, lmao. Are you supporting McDonald’s getting free money for messed up food? You’re ridiculous. I absolutely will charge back a McDonald’s or any other business that messes something up and won’t make it right.
Your comment is the opposite of a “gotcha” you creepy freak
2nd edit: i think other people should do chargebacks too instead of letting shitty corporate policies rob them of their hard-earned money.
Well of course I’d do a chargeback to McDonald’s, lmao. Are you supporting McDonald’s getting free money for messed up food? You’re ridiculous. I absolutely will charge back a McDonald’s or any other business that messes something up and won’t make it right.
Are you being the meme on purpose or…?
And some are just trolling, that sounds like you were trolled.
That’s French toast erasure.
I like to insult and block these people. My fear of course, with Lemmy being so small, is I will block everyone. Then again, that’s still better than dealing with illiterate, contrarian assholes
I feel the same way, then I look at my blocklist and it’s just lemmy.ml, anime subs, 3 people, some political terms, and a bot. I also have a .world account I use when I want to view the whole Lemmy experience anyways. Tbh I still feel kinda bad about blocking .ml, there was some cool peeps on there but I just can’t deal with all the tankie drama
You can block terms?
I use Voyager (mobile app), I have no idea if you can on desktop but I would assume so.
Thanks for the tip. I have Voyager, I didn’t realize you could use it like that.
I also blocked ml, it just ain’t worth it. I figure the cool people will eventually leave for another instance anyways
Yep that’s one of my pet peeves about the Internet. People love to try to put words in your mouth. It gets a bit tiring having to tell every one of those jabronis that I never said any of those words, and they should re-read what I did actually write instead.
If I see someone’s reply start with “So, you…” - I’m already rolling my eyes so fast that I’m time traveling back to nineteen-blackandwhite. In general, it’s an overly reductive view on the statement that misrepresents the initial comment in order to try and spark a pointless argument.
It’s exhausting.
(in b4 “so you hate reading comments then?” 😂)
e: it’s not just Lemmy to be fair - the other popular aggregator, most tabloid news sites with comments, and a lot of gaming news sites with social interaction are largely the same.
so you want to have nuanced and reasonable discussions on the internet?
In all honesty, I’ve found a more willing group of people to discuss things with - even if a lot of the time, our platforms and views are very different. There’s a larger acceptance on Lemmy of other people’s views and their right to hold them which is super cool, every now and then though I get brought down to earth with a bump.
That’s the internet, though!
So you want to be sane on internet?
