Posting to show that not only US media is seeing it this way. It was a disgrace.
I have had a low-key crush on Zelensky for about 15 years.
Nothing has ever made me respect the man more than him standing up to both Trump and Vance. This is a man worthy of praise for his fortitude and his dedication to his people.
I wish the United States could have a leader even a fraction as strong as Zelensky.
“I need ammunition, not a ride.”
“We’re not playing cards”
You and me both buddy :(
Anyone else noticed a clear link between this and what happened not too long ago with Macron exposing him as the liar that he is in front of everyone by very tactfully and diplomatically fact checking him?
It really looks like Trump was terrified to get a repeat of that with Zelenskyi so he brought Vance along for backup and then whenever Zelenskyi was about to make a point they’d just speak over him, repeating their own bullshit narrative over and over again.
It’s pathetic.
If he wasn’t ruining the world you could almost feel sorry for an old man so insecure with himself and unable to come to any self-reflection despite how far along he is in his twilight years.
But it’s Trump and he is an absolute moron and you just hope that slightly off-level piece of concrete where he walks finally comes for his hip, shattering it in a billion pieces and doing him in permanently.
This was an ambush. Straight up ambush. This was designed from the beginning. It was literally the geopolitical equivalent of a professional wrestling “Heel turn”. The whole point of this was literally for Trump to make Zelensky come to the White House, make Zelensky grovel at Trump’s feet for assistance, and expect him to thank them for the opportunity to grovel.
They even got Marjorie Trailer-Park Greene’s boyfriend in on the act as he was one of the only American press members allowed in the room and took a cheap shot at him about not wearing a suit. Fucking pathetic waste of human flesh trying to suck up to Trump by kicking a man while he’s down and unable to defend himself.
Vance admitted during the exchange that they were pissed because Zelensky stumped for Harris one time. Trump admitted after he kicked Zelensky out that it was because he didn’t want Zelensky saying bad things about Putin. And he also said it was going to make for great television. The whole thing was a setup. I don’t even think Trump cared about the mineral rights. That was just bait. It was meant to get Zelensky on TV and humiliate him as revenge for not engaging in political corruption with Trump in 2020 and for stumping for Harris, while also setting up a narrative to support the US fully pulling support from Ukraine, which I expect to be announced probably within the next 48 hours.
The setup was that this deal gave the US veto power over how Ukraine spent it’s mineral resources, which could be used to blackmail them in all sorts of ways, including forcing ceasefire and land cessation and any number of shady Trump-backed deals. Zelensky made clear this would only be considered if it coincided with some prospect of security guarantees, which Trump refused to even hint at.
This entire meeting was a setup to bully him into signing it regardless and Zelensky didn’t bite so they went off on him to blame him for things falling apart.
Nothing was lost herr except a lot of people’s time and the dignity of the US. Trump was never gonna help Ukraine secure actual lasting peace, he serves Russia
My take on this is that Trump promised that he would end the war quickly. Turns out it’s not that easy to do so that it pleases Putin and make him rich. Then escalates the conversation into a shouting match so that he can deflect the blame on Zelenksy and save face.
It’s also revenge for Zelenskyy not complying with Trumps extortion to dig up dirt on Hunter Biden, which led to Trumps first impeachment. He hates Zelenskyy for that.
Yours is the only credible explanation I’ve seen so far
Here’s something I thought of while watching: Who’s backing up Zelenskiy and giving him the courage to walk away like he did?
Somewhat related: Years ago I read a blog post about “who’s really in charge”. Basically it’s the MIC. At what point does the MIC flex and assert its interests in continuing the conflict in Ukraine?
Trump’s hands were quickly tied in 2017, just as Obama found himself in 2009, by the bureaucracy, congressional gridlock, and the demands of the donor class. It’s the overarching theme of a Chapo miniseries, Hell of Presidents: US executives have little ability to make sweeping changes even when they have a mandate.
So now he’s there and trying to beat them all by firing everyone. Trump’s only personal goals seem to be ending Ukraine conflict and pretending to be tough on immigration. He hires loyalist sycophants and lets them pursue their own agendas (Christianists, Nazis, RFK medical quackery, etc) because they agree to stay out of his way on his pet issues.
The lawless takeover by Musk has kept me awake at night. These people are just doing whatever they want and daring anybody to stop them.
What I saw in this bizarre piece of diplomacy theatre was a huge crack in the facade. Nobody conducts serious diplomacy this way. This is desperation by Trump to gain some leverage through public opinion and put Zelenskiy on the spot. Trump’s desired course of action with Ukraine threatens the legitimacy and mission of the postwar empire (regardless of what you or I think about US imperialism and NATO) and a lot of folks are deeply invested in that arrangement
This is all just ideas floating around in my head that seem somehow related. I’m sure someone else can make sense of it, or tell me why I’m way off base
Sorry for my ignorance, what’s/who’s the MIC?
Military Industrial Complex
Ahh gotcha
According to details leaking to the press, Zelenskyy didn’t walk but was thrown out.
In France it was called an extraordinary meltdown:
“Earlier Friday, Trump cut the meeting short with Zelensky, said the Ukrainian leader is “not ready” for peace with Russia in an extraordinary meltdown in the Oval Office that threw question marks over chances for a truce”
In Germany it was a shouting match:
US President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance’s conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the Oval Office turned into a shouting match.
If you look at European news sources, it’s filled with representatives from various countries all saying variations of “holy shit, we really can’t trust the US anymore”.
If you look at European news sources, it’s filled with representatives from various countries all saying variations of “holy shit, we really can’t trust the US anymore”.
The rest of the world can no longer expect the US to abide by word or deed for any more than two years. Any change in administration could mean rapid, unpredictable changes up to and including breaking treaties just because they feel like it.
Yeah our government is so flippy floppy. It sucks. Our first goddamn president warned against a two party state
Vance is such a piece of shit. Fuck him.
I simply cannot understand how anyone can take him seriously. How do you see him go from calling Trump “America’s Hitler” to being a sniveling suck-up to everything Trump says and does without realizing he has absolutely no spine? I mean, I don’t know why I am surprised at this point, anyone who hasn’t been put off by Trump in the past decade isn’t going to care about a little thing like a moral backbone, and yet I still just find myself dumbfounded by the lows we somehow continue to sink towards.
It makes more sense when you realize he wasn’t using “America’s Hitler” as an insult.
Trump looked like a bully with severe memory disorder and Vance looked nothing short of foolish. Both were completely outwitted.
Vance is a fish out of water, bereft of tact.
America and Ukraine broke up on live TV, that was good content.
Content? Content?! People are dying. Get a grip
It was like watching a abusive couple.
This was just drama manufactured by the legacy media because they hate Trump.
The uncut conversation was pretty civil.
Yes, that was very precisely chosen eight uninterrupted minutes of absolute cringe by the American leadership I saw. I’m sure the rest more than made up for the uncut embarrassing clown act the legacy media had chosen to air.
[Citation Needed]
