This was not inevitable. This is a war Israel chose. It could have been prevented. Diplomatic talks were ongoing when the bombers took off for Iran. Israel’s continuing, illegal, unjustified airstrikes are unlikely to achieve their stated aim – permanently ending Tehran’s presumed efforts to build nuclear weapons – and may accelerate it. They must stop now. Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
This conflict is not limited, as was the case last year, to tit-for-tat exchanges and “precision strikes” on a narrow range of military targets. It’s reached a wholly different level. Potentially nothing is off the table. Civilians are being killed on both sides. Leaders are targets. The rhetoric is out of control. With Israel fighting on several fronts, and Iran’s battered regime backed against a wall, the Middle East is closer than ever to a disastrous conflagration.
Reasons can always be found to go to war. The roots of major conflicts often reach back decades – and this is true of the Israel-Iran vendetta, which dates to the 1979 Islamic revolution. The so-called “shadow war” between the two intensified in recent years. Yet all-out conflict had been avoided, until now. So who is principally to blame for this sudden, unprecedented explosion?
Answer: three angry old men whose behaviour raises serious doubts about their judgment, common sense, motives and even their sanity.
Ah yes, blame all three even though its been clearly israel and Netanyahu who have been beating the war drums for 30+ years. Israel has been talking about Iran developing a nuke for 30 years and saying that “its around the corner”. Israel did the same with Iraq btw and dragged the US to war.
Peak liberal both sidesism. Desperately clinging to the illusion that USA good, Iran bad. This is a big part of why we have genocide against palestinians and trump in office.
The thing is, there are people who need to be killed, and we just can’t agree on who. And the people who say no one are the worst of all. Let’s make some progress in this world.
Trust The Guardian to “both-sides” a blatant war of aggression and just completely fail to mention the massive genocide Israel is carrying out.
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Seriously. The Guardian has had no problem with Muslims being killed up till now. So long as it was Israel doing it.
Huh? I have seen tons of articles in Guardian calling Israel’s actions a genocide. This is much more than what one can say for the rest of western mainstream media. And before someone says something along the lines of “yea only after everyone started saying it” there are many articles in 2024 and some of these articles go as far back as 2023 Nov, Dec (the Hamas attack was 2023 Oct and Israeli genocide started in October right after this) saying that dehumanizing language used by Israeli state ministers and events unfolding in Gaza are genocidal. I wonder what do you base these comments on when there are dozens of articles in Guardian calling this a genocide.
A consensus is emerging: Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. Where is the action?
Israel committing genocide in Gaza, says EU’s former top diplomat
Israel’s war in Gaza amounts to genocide, Amnesty International report finds
Military intervention must be used to stop the genocide in Gaza
What did you do during the genocide in Gaza?
We’re anti-Zionist Jews and we see genocide unfolding in Gaza
There is even an editorial one laying out how inhumane and aggressive Israeli state is:
The Guardian view on Israel and allegations of genocide: a case that needs to be heard
False equivalencies.
The Zygon Inversion - A Transcript of The Doctor’s Speech [edited for brevity]
The Doctor: You just want cruelty to beget cruelty. You’re not superior to people who were cruel to you. You’re just a whole bunch of new cruel people. A whole bunch of new cruel people, being cruel to some other people, who’ll end up being cruel to you. The only way anyone can live in peace is if they’re prepared to forgive. Why don’t you break the cycle?
Bonnie: Why should we?
The Doctor: What is it that you actually want?
Bonnie: War.
The Doctor: Ah. And when this war is over, when – when you have the homeland free from humans, what do you think it’s going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you’re very close to getting what you want. What’s it going to be like? Paint me a picture. Are you going to live in houses? Do you want people to go to work? What’ll be holidays? Oh! Will there be music? Do you think people will be allowed to play violins? Who will make the violins? Well? Oh, You don’t actually know, do you? Because, just like every other tantruming child in history, Bonnie, you don’t actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you’ve killed all the bad guys, and it’s all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one?
. . .
The Doctor: This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it’s always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who’s going to die. You don’t know who’s children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they’re always going to have to do from the very beginning – sit down and talk! Listen to me, listen. I just – I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It’s just a fancy word for changing your mind.
damn they just pretend the UK is not the country that fuel Jets over Iraq to facilitate the bombing. Or it is not the UK base in Cyprus and vessels that provide a command center and communication tool to facilitate the mission.
If you want to attack Iran and accelerate to a wwiii don’t shy from telling the truth about your involvement, we know it, you know it …
Don’t forget Putin…
Fuck thes old, power-hungry war-mongering pieces of excrement. Their death will be celebrated by millions.
Please put an age restriction on politicians, it would solev sooo much nonsense.
Putin is by far the worst one.
Neither Netanyahu nor Khamenei have the capacity for war the way the other 2 have.
And Putin already has achieved what Trump wants to achieve: being a dictator with full control of the state.
Oh how much the world would improve if all 4 of them suddenly get a bullet between the eyes.
They would immediately get replaced with someone just as bad if not worse. The world has an endless supply of power hungry warmongering assholes.
How is Putin worse than Netanyahu? Just compare the children death toll in Palestine vs. Ukraine.
Don’t mistake Ukraine’s ability for self-defense as Putin’s mercy.
Please put an age restriction on politicians, it would solev sooo much nonsense.
Yeah, people who are young enough to actually have to worry about the future.
Grumpy old men.
Khameni didn’t want a war
So far also Iran only matched target groups after Israel targeted them first. E.g. Israel strikes MoD offices in Tehran -> Iran strikes back at the MoD in Tel Aviv. Israels strikes Iranian gas and electrical infrastructure -> Iran strikes back at Israeli Gas and electrical infrastructure.
Iran doesn’t want this war and keeps reiterating to go back to diplomacy, however the US and multiple G7 countries, especially UK, France and Germany are rattling the sabres more, defending Israels onslaught while condemning Irans responses. These countries claiming they would seek a diplomatic solution makes for rather cynical lies when they cover the attacker and condemn the defender.
No doubt Israel started this iteration but to say that Iran doesn’t want war is viewing the regime too favourably. Of course they don’t want war on Iranian territory - but they do want to directly sponsor Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, al-Assad (until he fell), and other mostly Shia militias while severely oppressing their own population - especially minorities. Fuck Israel but it’s not like Iran comes with peaceful intentions. My parents fled from this regime, and while virtually no Iranian supports Israel’s actions or wants war, most of us wouldn’t shed a single tear if the entire regime were wiped out.
Did you forget that israel also backed the shah which was also oppressive and killed iranian? The west and it proxy israel always trying to control iranian natural ressources.
Iran provide weapons to resistance groups but do not control their actions. It’s not different than the united state selling weapona to it’s allies
Iran was forced to intervene in syria because the plan was always to put another regime that will protect israel and not because they love the butcher Assas butchring syrians
You can’t claim to not support israel when they are the one right now trying to change the regime right now. How many iranians do you think should die for a regime change that will be replaced by a puppet not chosen by iranians?
For me it’s about being realistic. Iran is never gonna defeat Israel as long as the Americans support them. You’re right that Iran will never flourish because the powers won’t ever allow it - Israel, USA, Western Europe, Saudi Arabia, sometimes Turkey… puppet or not, I’m not gonna support the devil I know just because I can’t know what happens in the time after.
You’re supporting the devil right now.
So do you agree that Israel should stop the war then Iranians themselves decide to overthrow the regime?
Of course I do? My only statement is that I wouldn’t be sad if a rocket happened to hit Khamenei. Never gonna shed a tear for a tyrant, even if it was my other enemy that caused his downfall.
If Khamenei die , it will be replaced by another. In the process of trying to kill Khamenei ton of civilians will die. Are you ready for the rest of your family who are still in Iran to risk dying in the process?
Empire has been attacking Iran for centuries. The current state is a direct result of imperial violence. Iran has had no choice but to defend itself for decades.
Iran doesn’t want this war
No doubt Iran has acted in aggressive ways in other places. However it seemed to not have directed its aggression directly at Israel. People keep claiming that Iran would have orchestrated October 7, but if it had, Hezbollah, Houthis and Iranian proxies in Syria and Iraq would have joined in full force. So Iran wasn’t interested in a confrontation with Israel in the past years either.
Oh absolutely, this one is on Israel for sure. Just important to note that it’s not like the Iranian regime is made up of pacifists
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Because they know they’ll lose it as things currently stand.
That’s why they’ve been trying to build nukes.
Gotta be a complete idiot not to build nukes when a rogue genocidal cult is constantly threatening to nuke you.
A nuclear Iran is one of the only hopes for peace.
First of all: It’s not clear that they want nukes. Like, seriously, they have been accused of almost having nukes for thirty years, it’s much more plausible at this point that they are much more interested in the ability to acquire them quickly in case they need them.
But even then: It makes no sense for them to use them aggressively, but it makes an unbelievable amount of sense for them to want them for defensive purposes. Like: They have time and time suffered from western interference, including the extremely bloody Iran-Iraq-war and have a hostile, nazi-run rouge state running a genocide and storing nukes without NPT-approval that is receiving unlimited support from the US in their vicinity.
The fact of the matter is that there is no country on earth that is as justified in pursuing a nuclear deterrent on earth as Iran.
And none of that changes anything about the government being made up from horrible tyrants that are almost as bad (but definitely not actually as bad, let alone worse!) as the one in Israel. They absolutely should be overthrown, but that’s not the job for the genocidal nazis in Israel.
They never tried to build a nuke
Yes, I’m sure a nation with huge oil and gas reserves wants nuclear just to have very expensive energy.
They want nuclear weapons to prevent regime change due to external interference. Russia can’t protect them. There’s no NATO style protection for Russian allies. I think we’re only seeing this now because of how weak Russia is on the global stage.
external interference
I think you mean western imperialism and genocidal zionism which have been attacking Iran for decades/centuries.
We heard this dumb argument for decades
Khamenei maybe an angry old man considering his country is facing an existential threat but Netanyahu is a wanted war criminal and Trump is a rapist with nefarious ties to the notorious Epstein
Stop pretending like Khamenei isn’t a criminal. He’s not just an angry old man because they’re “facing an existential threat” he’s a fuckwad through and through and no Iranian would shed a tear if he was shelled. Israel certainly started this iteration of the conflict but Khamenei and the regime has a rap sheet far longer than Trump’s.
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What do I know? My parents came to Denmark fleeing from this shitty regime. What do you know?
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Of course I have family in Iran, even though I don’t know them too well. How are you reading that I’m happy that terrorist (Israeli) bombs are falling on people? Regular people are always the losers in warfare, no matter the circumstances. Just wouldn’t be sad if it happened to fall on Khamenei - nor if a missile landed on Bibi’s house.
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Israel is undoubtedly the most evil regime in the world but upholding another evil regime oppressing 90+ million people just because they lay claim to standing up to Israel - without producing any particularly strong results - doesn’t seem like the tradeoff to go for. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Iran can still be on the right side of history without Khamenei and his goons.
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I am, but I won’t claim that I’m not first and foremost Danish - apart from when it comes to food… But I do feel like I’m allowed to have a strong opinion on the regime.
My Iranian ass spending minutes to get my VPN working so I can access lemmy and watch people whitewash the man responsible for all my misery only to shit on Netanyahu and Trump:
whitewash the man responsible for all my misery
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi?
Ali Khamenei.
Had nothing to do with the overthrow of the Iranian democracy in 1953.
Didn’t the CIA do that
To install Pahlavi as Shah, absolutely.
This was in an effort to keep Iran from selling oil to the USSR.
Khomeini hijacked the revolution that ousted the Shah and turned it from a triumphant moment and chance for change into a “under new management” situation.
Khamenei now presides over this theocratic regime and continues to oppress Iran.
Khomeini hijacked the revolution
The lion’s share of the proletariat were religious conservatives. He didn’t hijack the revolution, he was a foundational pillar of its execution.
Khamenei now presides over this theocratic regime
Show me a Middle Eastern government more liberal than President Masoud Pezeshkia’s Independent Reformist coalition. Half their neighbors are Kingdoms, ffs. The other half are military dictatorships. Iran is one of the few proper democracies on the continent. It’s theocratic because the majority of its constituents are conservative theocrats sending up religious politicians to the parliament. Iran is no more theocratic than Pakistan or Mississippi.
I don’t have time or will to dive into all of this but this one part: “It is theocratic because the majority of it’s constituents are conservative theocrats” There are no non-theocratic politians in Iran, they do not get approved for standing in an election. Every candidate, on every level, has to be approved by the Guardian Council. Who elected that council? Well, half of the council are clerics, appointed the Supreme Leader. The other half are jurists, who are selected by the Majilis from list approved by the Chief Justice. Who appointed the Chief Justice? The Supreme Leader.
Meaning all 12 positions of the body that decides who can stand for election are either appointed by the supreme Leader or appointed by someone with direct allegiance to the Supreme Leader.
Take the president for example: Pezeshkian would legally not be able to stand for election if he wasnt a Shia Muslim or didn’t affirm that the Supreme Leader is the ultimate authority in matters of religion and social issues. Meaning by law, both social and religious reforms can only be done with the consent of the supreme Leader.
The constituents send up theocratic politicians because there are no other politicians. A theocrat has the ultimate power of determining who is and isn’t a viable candidate.
So it justifies the crimes of the mullahs? Why do you want it to seem that America is the devil and the mullahs are OK? Can’t them both be bad in your mind?
So? US foreign policy has done a number of the whole world. It’s not an excuse for Khamenei and his goons to uphold this regime.
If you don’t want to be governed by conservatives, quit lining all the progressives against the wall and shooting them.
Blaming Khamenei for governing like a conservative Muslim, when you’re in a region absolutely choked with religious conservative governments, seems to miss the forest for the trees. Especially after the US was instrumental in undermining and dismantling all the modernist secular democracies from the first half of the 20th century.
I mean screw the men responsible for your misery, but Iran is objectively the good guy when it comes to Palestine. We don’t have quite as much opportunity to shit on Khomeini now that Assad isn’t around, but we still hate him don’t worry.
Not every conflict has a good guy, there are no good guys, the Khamenei regime is evil and so is the leadership of Isreal. Just because the latter attacked the former does not make them innocent, let the bastards burn and pity the civilian.
From what I understand from your message it looks like to me that this is all something like a game for you people to virtue signal.
Edit: Funny how you got Khomeini and Khamenei mixed up. It shows how much you know and care about the matter.
From what I understand from your message it looks like to me that this is all something like a game for you people to virtue signal.
No? What do you even mean by whitewashing him? The atrocities he commits just aren’t relevant to the topic at hand, so they’re not brought up.
Edit: Funny how you got Khomeini and Khamenei mixed up.
Wow, TIL. I thought their names were both Khomeini but that makes more sense.
You are out of touch if you think Trump is worse than Khamenei
EDIT: Lemmy, wake me up when Trump orders to kill the protestets, because by every passing day most of you look more and more delusional to me, lost in your own hate. Feels weird defending trump, but there is a day and night difference between the two. See what Iranians themselves are saying.
Trump is actively helping to exterminate hundreds of thousands in Gaza. He is orders of magnitude worse than Khamenei
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I’m not sure what did you mean by this. Violently attacking police officers usually results in the same thing anyways. Read the first lines from that article, he’s not talking about normal protesters and neither was that government official. Very poorly worded and stupidly timed.
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Because someone didn’t wear a gender discriminatory dress that the president enforces upon it’s population? Dude, get reality checked. Trump is a piece of shit, but he’s pretty far from such extreme levels of evilness. When I’ll see news like “Trump administration executes Harvard students for protesting”, then I’ll re-consider my views
Lots of people in this site are sympathetic to any tyrant as long as they aren’t ruling over a western country.
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Putin has a day off?
He’s too busy begging these three for help.
This freaking assholes are going to do the thing that the last string of Putin’s morality didnt allow him to do and give a white card to any future psycopath to use nuclear weapons.
Russia and the USA created this monsters. We need to deweaponize the fuck out of all of them before it is to late.
This article is fine, but kind of superfluous.
We get it. Everyone can see this. If you don’t have actionable advice or some additional insight, you’re really just reporting that water is wet.
Unfortunately not everyone is aware that water is wet. And often there are groups who try and convince people otherwise.
I agree that more ideas need to be put into action that can actually accomplish change for the better, but that requires that people be informed first.
Water is not wet
Likewise, Iran must halt its retaliation immediately and drop its escalatory threats to attack US and UK bases.
Apparently defending yourself is the peak of insanity now.
Angry old men … ruling the biggest countries in the world … and all of them not caring what they are going to do or not do because they’re going to be dead or senile or incapable to do anything within the next ten years.
blaming the top government officials only is stupid. Thet completelyignore that they got voted in and have majority support among their population. At least Iran has less of a choice, and even then was negotiating a deal and agreed to one in the past!
