What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly.
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
I’d like a definition of “pro-Russia” and “pro-China.” Does crediting other countries for any progress, while your own country goose steps towards fascism, considered a “pro” stance? Russia and China are reacting to attacks from the West.
Ml was always pro china pro russia nothing new. I am more worried about the rise of zionism apologists
Which Zionism apologists are you seeing on .ml? Moderators remove that. I also don’t really believe you’ve seen popular pro-Russia stances, I’d sooner think you’re conflating Russia-neutral stances.
“Was I brainwashed by Western propaganda?”
“No, only shithole commie countries like China have propaganda”
I saw China take COVID seriously while I was marched off to work to die because my job was “essential” - the US, EU, Canada, it was basically every Western country except New Zealand (which is an island and basically became a bunker nation for billionaires and shouldn’t really count)
I became pro-China after that.
My state of Victoria in Australia had one of the longest lockdowns in the world. As someone with an immuno compromised dad I was supportive of it. However the state is now in a lot of debt and having to cut public servants and services.
They have to recoup the ~$50 billion spent/invested on covid public health and financial support somehow. Yet they keep digging deeper into the $200 billion suburban rail link.
Also, when Chinese covid lockdowns were perceived as too restrictive and went on for too long, Chinese citizens in many different cities started protesting. Did the evil commie government (A) reenact the Tiananmen Square massacre to silence all opposition or (B) listen to the people and actually drop most of the restrictions? Bet most westoids will pick the wrong answer.
Also, loosening of the lockdowns quickly led to more victims than the initial phase of pandemic. Malcontents were lucky that govt did not caved in sooner.
The best is once covid was declared over usa got tons of laws forcing the removal of what little protections were done.
were the party if fiscal responsibility but all that money you spent needs to get burned because screw any germ protections being kept on our watch
What I learned from covid is a lot of US states had laws criminalizing wearing any kind of mask in public because it’s considered “suspicious” or “threatening” or something, and most states are now reinstating those laws post covid.
Like what the actual fuck?
Well germ theory is woke! Didn’t you know?
China hushed COVID up in it’s early stages while a pandemic could still have been avoided and terrorized its own population with an ultimately unsustainable ‘zero COVID’ strategy.
I have friends in China and the stories they tell from this period are horrifying. The authorities would literally nail your door shut from the outside if one person in your city block was tested positively and many people almost starved in their flats during these absolute lockdowns.
They took it serious alright.
I think the fact that the US had a 9/11 every day for so long is actually a lot more horrifying than people being forced into screening to leave apartment complexes (which is what you’re referring to when you sensationally accuse them of “nailing doors shut”).
Being marched to my death was horrifying.
Stopping a pandemic means sacrificing some freedom of movement. The fact that China was willing to sacrifice productivity to save lives convinced me that politics are in command and, despite their market reforms, they remain committed to Marxism.
lmfao hooman rights is when you do genocide and jail people protesting it
This poster was banned? Guess you cant ask these kinds of questions on a .ml community.
- The question has accusations in it.
- The user wasn’t banned over this post, but for saying COVID was a Chinese bio-weapon in another thread. In that same post they also wished slavery on the people of Tibet.
What an absolute clusterfuck of a thead. Isn’t .ml a leftist lemmy?..
Do you really have to ask this question lol?
Lemmy.world is full of libs who will take you with open arms, trust me.
16·16 hours ago.ml isnt leftist in the same way as hexbear and lemmygrad, there aren’t any rules about being a lib. But since the mods are leftists it does lean more towards it.
I mean there are plenty of instances with isolation from the “pro-china and pro-russia stuff” if that’s such a negative thing for the OP to make a post about it.
OP got butt hurt after got his comment removed for still somehow believing the bullshit about COVID been a bioweapon so he made this post.
I believe covid might have been a bioweapon. Just out of fort detrick not wuhan
As does Jeffrey Sachs, who lead the The Lancet COVID-19 Commission in 2020. Why the Chair of the Lancet’s COVID-19 Commission Thinks The US Government Is Preventing a Real Investigation Into the Pandemic
Evil china and evil russia have never done anything to my country while the US and Europe did and continue to do so, is that clear enough?
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Excuse me? The US treats my people like animals and you want to bring that human rights into the picture?
ok but have you considered chinese imperialism!!! they’re invading the world with cheaper, better and faster smartphones and ethically made synthetic diamonds that are materially indistinguishable from the diamonds mined by slaves owned by the west and various renewable energy tech that will absolutely be used to steal solar energy from countries investing in it and definitely not help countries divert away from broken-down non-renewable energy infrastructure depedent on Western private companies to “maintain”!!
don’t you get me started on russian imperialism… You don’t wanna get me started!
The US always needs a boogeyman to justify massive defense spending
and that’s usually us on the third world.
China has human rights. E.G. Trans people get gender affirming healthcare, jobs, food, and housing. Something that the U.S. does not guarantee and is actively trying to ban transgender affirming care. One of the most famous people in China is Jin Xing a trans woman. The Chinese government does not restrict transgender people in the same way that the UK and the U.S. does. Largely it is social stigma that remains in China, which will and has been changing over time.
I agree that treatment seems a non issue, but from what I’ve seen the social stigma is incredibly significant. I forget their handle, but there was a trans man on rednote that had alot to say about the stigma in his part of china. That isn’t to say the US is any better though.
That’s Theo and his rednote videos are very insightful. There probably could be better education surrounding trans people done in China to help reduce the stigma, but that is the case in nearly every country. I think as people continue to be open and vulnerable about what it means to be transgender and people become more exposed to transgender people that social stigma will change. It is part of why I live openly and honestly as a trans person. Every generation of queer folk has paved the way for the rest of us.
Ah thank you for the name drop! And yeah, I hope things improve!
Tbh in China it varies a LOT by region how you’ll be treated socially. There’s some places where trans people have dedicated medical centers and others where they’ll be persecuted. It’s a failure of uneven development they’re trying to fix. The govt there recently banned the sale of hormones online which really complicated things for trans women.
The govt there recently banned the sale of hormones online which really complicated things for trans women.
That’s if you don’t have a prescription, while the process is some what tedious to get a prescription people were giving themselves doses far above what is recommended so it was out of concern for safety not a malicious intent unlike what we see in Western countries. I would like to see China do informed consent for HRT and lift some of the barriers though.
As far as the rural v urban divide, it is a tale as old as time, not something unique to China, but at least they are doing something about it.
You can get hormones by eating gonads (eg ovaries, uterus, testes), that’s part of how those meds are made. So it won’t stop people from getting them, it just means their doses will be unpredictable.
What’s your point?
And the situation with the uigurs?
What about it? Say what you mean.
China’s claim is that anything that is being done is being done to combat islamic fundamentalist groups/extremists. This seems to be backed up by international support from Muslim countries.
Genocide claims were always unfounded. However, no matter how nice the guided tours of reeducation facilities look, they are still in effect prisons, and we of course don’t know about the things that we aren’t being shown.
If your position on the topic is anything more than “They may or may not be treated that good”, you have information that nobody else has.
In a very simplified answer: China and Russia (as well as Iran) never made any thinly-veiled threats of turning my hometown of Johannesburg into the next Gaza.
Never seen any of this stuff. Not even once.
Some good answers already here, but I can only answer for myself: I used to be that kind of leftist that was “Well I want socialism, but not like those scary foreign authoritarian countries. They’re doing it wrong! Or that’s not really socialism!” At some point after learning more history and talking with others online, I’ve softened my view on these places. Some of that is learning that some of what I knew about them was straight up misinformation, but some of it comes from a shift in perspective: These aren’t abstract ideals of countries. They’re real countries. With real people, real histories, real material conditions, real geopolitical relationships to deal with, etc. They’re doing something really difficult and it’s really easy to be an armchair quarterback while sitting cozy in the US where I don’t have to deal with any of their tough decisions or the consequences of them. Am I happy with them doing some authoritarian policies? No. But maybe they’re necessary to deal with the interference of the US? I don’t know for sure if that’s the best approach, but I don’t have to imagine the counterexample of what it looks like if you don’t take defensive measures, the US has helpfully provided a bunch in the form of all of the countries they’ve backed coups in for the crime of electing even a slightly leftist government. We could squabble about better ways to deal with this, but neither of us has the full context to have an educated discussion on the matter. Also for the genuinely bad stuff, I wouldn’t go as far as specifically supporting those things, but it’s worth putting them in perspective. You can’t talk about China online without someone bringing up Tienanmen Square, meanwhile the US has been a never-ending avalanche of evil in it’s short history, but you can talk about any number of things not related to politics in the US without a random leftist wandering into the discussion about the latest hollywood movie shouting the entire lyrics to “We Didn’t Start the Fire.” I mean we’re happy to bring all that stuff up if it’s in the right context, but people are so deranged about communist countries that the ONLY thing they can think to bring up in relation to them is their less savory moments that may or may not even be true/exaggerated.
It’s really hard to sort good information from bad about these places because there’s so much propaganda. I get that those other countries have an incentive to put out their own propaganda, but it’s hard for me to know what their reach is or what their motivations are or how much they are lying vs countering US misinfo. Meanwhile I KNOW the US has a fairly sophisticated system of propaganda spanning government agencies, media companies, NGOs, etc. I KNOW the US is motivated to prop up the interests of capitalists and try to stop other countries from pushing back against them. A lot of the bad shit and lies the US has done is just straight up declassified history. So I’m sorry if I’m a little skeptical about what the empire that’s made it it’s business to deny self-determination to countries around the world has to say about those countries.
As for Russia, I’m not specifically a supporter. Ever since the USSR collapsed they’ve been another capitalist, imperialist country. But in terms of scale they’re just not even remotely comparable to the US. They are at worst a regional power and outside of nukes can’t really threaten the US on the global stage. So when the US war machine starts saber rattling about them, I know what it’s for because I’ve seen it a million times before. We always need an external enemy to justify the massive amount of money we spend on the military and all of the capitalists who profit from it. Even if I think it would be good if someone in the region pushed back against Russian aggression, I think feeding the beast that is the US military industrial complex is a net negative for the world. Not that I really have any say in it. I can’t remember the last time my congressperson or senator asked if I wanted to give another couple billion dollars to their friends in the “defense” industry. And then of course there was all the hysteria about Russian interference in our elections from the Democrats. I don’t even care if they’re right or wrong. That’s besides the point. The function of the claims is what is more valuable to look at: The implication of “Russia is subverting our democracy by interfering in our elections.” is “We had a previously uncorrupted democracy before the Russians got involved. Please ignore how our own billionaires have bought out all of our elections.” It’s a way to shore up support for a failing system by externalizing it’s problems.
I just want to live in a world where we can all live dignified lives. US capitalists are the current greatest obstacle to that dream. I’d rather have imperfect allies against that than throw my lot in with the “Endless war, exploitation, and ecological collapse” team.
Well said.
Who are pushing pro-China narratives? Who are pushing pro-Western narratives? What are their motives and, at the end of the day, who is benefiting from it all? Do the words of the politicians whom you support match their actions, or they just looking out for the bottom line? There are states that treat their citizens with dignity and there are states that do an exceptional job of convincing their citizens that they are being treated in a dignified way.
You don’t have to be reflexively pro-China or pro-West. Evidence from reputable sources has been provided throughout this thread and in all corners of the internet. The people who can best answer your question have led you to the water. It is up to you to drink it.
Others have given great answers, but the short-answer is that it’s not a “disinformation campaign,” nor is it organized. It’s because Lemmy has a lot of leftists, especially Marxist-Leninists, and MLs both support AES (“Actually Existing Socialism”), like the PRC, and critically support capitalist countries forced into allying with them against the Global North’s imperialism.
In terms of their net impacts on the world, the US and EU far outweigh the evils of Russia. Russia is certainly flawed, but unlike the US and EU Russia doesn’t rely on expropriating vast amounts of wealth from the Global South, sanctioning, couping, or genociding those who go against imperialism. It isn’t because Russia is some moral paragon, but because they simply lack the means to be imperialist, they are boxxed in by the west and lack the financial capital to rely on expropriation of wealth.
As for the PRC, it gets far more support, because it’s the leading socialist country. 800 million people were lifted from poverty, and it’s rapidly improving. Even when the west runs propaganda against them, like the COVID lab leak theory or the Chinese spy balloon hysteria, the PRC is being widely supported by the Global South as the PRC is providing a genuine alternative to the genocidal west.
If you (or anyone else) want an introduction to Marxism-Leninism, here’s my Read Theory, Darn It! introductory reading guide!
