• pyre@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1311·
    10 hours ago

    why are internet atheists so embarrassing man… this is literally the same thing as showing a physics book and saying “proof that physics exists” thinking you made an excellent point.

    • glorkon@lemmy.worldEnglish
      111·
      6 hours ago

      Thing about physics books, you can literally go and prove every single claim in them by yourself, if you have the required technical and intellectual capabilities.

      That’s why they’re fundamentally different to the quran, the bible and Spiderman. Those three consist to a large extent of completely unfalsifiable claims.

      • pyre@lemmy.worldEnglish
        5·
        5 hours ago

        that’s why it’s a stupid way to make the point. the image just says “they believe it because a book exists” which is not true.

        also it’s one thing to not have respect for religion but you gotta respect the hyphen; it’s spider-man.

    • Brainsploosh@lemmy.worldEnglish
      41·
      6 hours ago

      You’re entirely right, yet also entirely missing the point.

      The proof of Physics existing isn’t in the book, and no physicist would claim you take what’s in the book on faith, nor that it’s unquestionable, nor that other books on physics are lies, nor kill/lynch/shun people for studying the universe through other perspectives like chemistry or mathematics or biology.

      Asked for proof of Physics, physicists make predictions that can be reliably reproduced, not telling you to read the Physics book harder.

      Regardless, everyone is new sometime, why not provide links, a counter argument or anything useful rather than just deriding them? This way you mostly come off as an ass who doesn’t understand the argument.

  • ShinkanTrain@lemmy.mlEnglish
    47·
    1 day ago

    1. The Devil infamously appears in Spider-Man.

    2. The Devil is (mostly) canon in the Christian multiverse.

    3. I met Spider-Man at my 8 year old birthday party.

    Conclusion: All 3 are real, or I’m not real. Advances in ontology necessary to say with certainty.

        • glorkon@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          8 hours ago

          Ah, but in my language (German) it says “Ersteller”, which merely means “producer”. A divine creator would be called “Schöpfer” which Germans exclusively use for creators that create rather magnificient or special things. Like art. Or universes. :)

          • HugeNerd@lemmy.caEnglish
            11·
            6 hours ago

            Hm, so you’re saying the universe might be German? That explains it: it’s over-engineered, over-rated, yet unreliable and full of bad ideas.

            • glorkon@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              3 hours ago

              Actually, quite the opposite - I’m pointing out that the German language is better at making the distinction between a true act of creation and something as trivial as writing a comment on Lemmy.

              • HugeNerd@lemmy.caEnglish
                1·
                3 hours ago

                So do we, creator vs Creator. But since there’s no such thing as a god or “Creator”, it’s really irrelevant.

                Can we talk about your shitty cars now?

                • glorkon@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  1·
                  10 minutes ago

                  It’d sure be interesting to hear how you can pronounce capitalized words. Works in Terry Pratchett’s discworld novels, not sure how you pull that one off though.

                  Also, I never built a car. Sorry.

    • Rusty@lemmy.caEnglish
      521·
      1 day ago

      They are the same in a sense the Amazing Spider-Man and the Spectacular Spider-Man are the same.

      • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        191·
        4 hours ago

        This is the best way of understanding religion. If you understand comic books, you understand the history of religion exactly as well.

        Edit: Except for the geographic component it us exactly the same. Like, in egyptiqn myth each god kind of takes their turn being the juiced-up heel. In greek myth ares is kind of usually a dick but sometimes hes a dick to the other guy but when he shows up in a wonder woman thing hes always gonna be fuckin shit up. Loki is usually a lovable ‘what the fuck did you do!?’ playful accidental antagonist or transgressive guile hero and pretty genderfluid but when going after the hulk or dr. Strange always uses he/him pronouns for some reason.

        Edit: also i think at least one batman villain has crossed over with pro wrestling and that means the POTUS in our story has been punched by someone whos shaken a hand that has punched multuple members of the justice league.

    • whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      12·
      1 day ago

      Bunch of heathens following Ben Reilly /s

      The problem is the theology doesn’t match, there is no common god of Christians, Jews, and Muslims because Christians believe Jesus is god and divine and neither of the others do meaning their god’s identity is different. Christians and Jews believe the Quran contains lies, Muslims and Jews believe the Christian bible contains lies, and Christians and Muslims believe the Jewish bible contains lies. Hell even within each there are sects that believe different things about god, like Christians who believe they are saved by being chosen, by faith alone, or by faith and works.

      Religions when formed usually branch from an existing religion (e.g. Christianity started as a Jewish apocalyptic cult, Mormon branches from that, etc), but change the theology enough so that the old clergy/church is no longer valid wrt the new faith position.

      • Saleh@feddit.orgEnglish
        11·
        1 day ago

        Trinity beliefs only were established around 400 AD as dominant in Christianity, however to this day there are non-trinitarian Christians. Christians still understand themselves as monotheists and are also considered “people of the book” in Islam, just like Jews are.

        Most versions of the bible say that Jesus didn’t break with the scripture before, but confirms and expands it. Subsequently Islam does the same, with some corrections, most notably the clear rejection of trinitarianism. The prophet whose story is shown the most in the Quran is Moses.

        As far as i can tell from the translations i have read, neither the Bible nor Quran specifically oppose previous scripture.

        • whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          5·
          21 hours ago

          Trinitarian vs unitarian is a theological difference that requires different definitions and identities of god even if they both use the monotheist label. These are not compatible differences, you would have to believe contradictory beliefs to say one god identity exists and represents both trinitarian and unitarian theologies and is the same god. Just because they share the same name doesn’t mean they share the same properties.

          The Christian bible disagrees with the Jewish bible unless you apply the Christian apologetic hermeneutics of someone who believes the Christian bible. Instead of saying they’re replacing theology they’re going to fulfill and expand and enhance, theology+. The anonymously written Christian gospels say Jesus is the messiah but the Jewish bible messianic prophecies say the messiah would be a king who rules on the throne of David that Jesus never did. The Christian bible gospels misquote from the Jewish bible that were not prophecies (born of a virgin vs young girl already pregnant, quoting Zekariah as Jeremiah, etc) because the gospel writers were using a Greek translated version instead of books originally written in Hebrew. It says you don’t need to follow the old law and prophets and sacrifices anymore when the Jewish bible says they need to be followed forever. Hell being eternal torture is a clear break from the legacy Jewish dogma.

          I’m not educated on the Quran but I’m pretty sure neither Jews nor Christians believe the same theology at Muslims which are derived from their god beliefs, otherwise they would have included the Quran in their bibles too or have books in their dogma about the laws and teachings of Muhammad as a messiah. They can’t change the established dogma so they spin up a new religion to change the theology.

          • Zagorath@aussie.zoneEnglish
            2·
            19 hours ago

            Hell being eternal torture is a clear break from the legacy Jewish dogma

            To be fair, isn’t that non-biblical Christian teaching? The same way the trinity is? Actually, even less than the trinity, because wasn’t that only established basically thanks to Renaissance author Dante Alighieri, who was borrowing artistic ideas from classical Greek mythology?

            • whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              3·
              18 hours ago

              Dante and John Milton did a lot to forming the modern mythology, along with the eternal punishment in hell fire Jesus talks about in gospels attributed to Mark and Matthew (some Sumerian and Greek myths probably contributed too to common conceptions):

              Matt 18 8-9: 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.todayEnglish
          4·
          1 day ago

          Most versions of the bible say that Jesus didn’t break with the scripture before, but confirms and expands it. Subsequently Islam does the same, with some corrections, most notably the clear rejection of trinitarianism. The prophet whose story is shown the most in the Quran is Moses.

          Furthering that, Mormons also believe Mohammed was a different kind of prophet and LDS church is basically just another expansion pack of monotheism.

    • Sami@lemmy.zipEnglish
      7·
      1 day ago

      Allah is “the god” in Arabic and applies to the Abrahamic religions. Similar to Algebra but also has a contraction with the Al/“the” part.

  • thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
    161·
    1 day ago

    this is why I think my ancestors got it right

    that thing that the others call god, we called it the great mystery, Wakan Tanka

    you aren’t going to make any more sense of it beyond that so don’t waste your life trying. the grasshopper has as much chance to understand the Internet as we have to understand what life means

    • FarraigePlaisteaċ@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      6 hours ago

      This is the most honest, respectful take I think I’ve come across. I find it very healthy to think and feel in this way. We live on a ball of soil and water, orbiting a ball of fire - and that whole thing is drifting through a vast expanse that’s just as mysterious.

    • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      5·
      1 day ago

      Star trek: more real than any god

      Its fine, we’re on our way back to that timeline; india is governed by nazi (not even neo) eugenics freaks and the us government is trying real hard for some bell riots.