Everyone for the past 8 years have been saying “The shit is right around the fucking corner! Please, get ready for it, so we can fight back when it does arrive!”
Jan 6th was the Beer Hall Putsch. And those telling everyone this, and explaining the historical context and lessons were met with derisive remarks. We also warned the Dems that pushing Biden, and then Harris, into the running for POTUS was a dangerous move, and prone to failing. Then, we were accused of “helping Trump”.
Like, the knowledge of how close we were was widely available. It was ignored. Why do you think “Defund the police” was considered a “middle ground” for those on the left? Notice who is doing the gestapo work? Cops.
We go four years of lessons about how the rich and connected live by a totally different set of rules and laws from those of us that are not rich or connected.
We need to start talking about how we’re going to hold these people accountable once this is all over. And we need to think of methods that bypass SCOTUS all together.
I propose that we rendition ICE agents to the countries of their victims to face trial in foreign courts. Are you an ICE agent that sent a bunch of innocent Venezuelans off to die in a prison camp in Ghana? We’re shipping your ass to Venezuela to face trial for your crimes against Venezuelan citizens. Just bypass the US judicial system all together, same as Trump is doing. That way some future Republican president can’t just pardon these bastards, and we don’t have to worry about a criminally corrupt SCOTUS refusing to hold murderers accountable for their crimes.
That’s the thing about crimes against immigrants. In theory you can be prosecuted in either their current country or their home country. If you harm an immigrant in the US, even if the US justice system is incapable of holding you accountable, you could simply be extradited to the home nation of your victim.
Maybe, just maybe, you should consider withdrawing the ‘The Hague invasion act’, join the ICC treaty and send all those thugs (beginning with the Fuhrer himself, if he is still alive) to The Hague.
Worked well with Milosevic. It’s working well with Duterte. Would work with the Orange Fuhrer and his goons.
First you tell people from other countries to mind their own business when they tell you to take part in the easy method of dealing with it, then double down on it. Now you think other countries, who you told to mind their own business, should deal with those subhumans because you blokes can’t deal with it at the polling booth nor within the judiciary. As you point out, you don’t have to worry then, because someone else is dealing with it.
At not one single point in this does the US take responsibility, it’s all palmed off to other nations. Developing ones at that.
I think it should be simple for ICE members: get the accounting books, see who is paid. Then execute them.
It isn’t kind, but clearly the mercy of Reconstruction and the Nuremberg trials (About 210 Nazis executed) allowed the bastards to be rooted in the culture of their nations. They must be treated like weeds, else they will come back.
The biggest worry here, is the books being falsified when the Hitlerites have clearly lost the war. They would likely add the names of their enemies to their books at the last minute. Hopefully, the Furry Hackers of the Allies would consistently obtain payment records, so that we can know when fake entries have been added.
They have to have due process but I agree that the punishments have been way too soft. The confederacy, the Jim Crow connected officials and the lynch mobs should have been dealt with after a trial with a jury made up of a jury of the community that they were targeting.
I figure that payment records is the closest we can get to due process. ICE wears masks to avoid retribution, and many of their victims will be killed to ensure their silence. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out a better way to track ICE membership, but I can’t think of it.
Yeah but the point of due process (especially since you specifically mentioned executions), is to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the person did the thing they’re accused of.
Otherwise, you make mistakes and you kill innocent people. Due process includes gathering the evidence you mentioned, but then also making sure that it’s real and valid and not just someone who didn’t like their neighbor so reported them or what have you
That is why ICE is problematic, because they deliberately try to avoid being identified. At some point, we have to choose: do we allow many members of ICE live because of their duplicity, or do we remove them from society, despite not having much information?
It isn’t a great situation. That is why collecting records is important, so that we can obtain a reasonable justice. After having an answer of “Did they serve ICE?” of yes or no, it becomes possible to indict ICE as a class of war criminal. ICE certainly wouldn’t even bother to check for citizenship before sending children abroad without parents, court orders, nor consent, so it is reasonable to have a relatively low standard for whether ICE staff should die. They are effectively genocidal traffickers by choice, and at some point, the restraint of mercy becomes foolishness.
The evil of ICE is corrosive like that, it affects everyone in their vicinity. Unfortunately, an end to a civil war where ICE is allowed to live, just means that they get to continue corroding our humanity decades after, as would their families in the centuries to come. It is better to commit the evil of execution against ICE, in order to prevent their evil by choice from growing strong in the garden of our society.
I agree. I just think we need to be careful about calling for foregoing due process.
Due process is also important in order to make sure that the person’s punishment sticks (not execution as that one obviously sticks). Because you might not care about the rule of law, but the next guy might. Or the judge ruling over the person’s appeal might.
You might not allow them to appeal, but whoever comes next might, and if you didn’t do shit right, they can have all of the charges thrown out. And possibly, rightfully so.
We need to start talking about how we’re going to hold these people accountable once this is all over. And we need to think of methods that bypass SCOTUS all together.
Cowardice. You need to talk about how to stop it, but that’s too uncomfortable and cuts into your daily routine. Why the fuck are you only interested in doing something after you can’t save their lives anymore?
This is murder with extra steps. The genocide has already started. I genuinely thought we had more time before it started…
Everyone for the past 8 years have been saying “The shit is right around the fucking corner! Please, get ready for it, so we can fight back when it does arrive!”
Jan 6th was the Beer Hall Putsch. And those telling everyone this, and explaining the historical context and lessons were met with derisive remarks. We also warned the Dems that pushing Biden, and then Harris, into the running for POTUS was a dangerous move, and prone to failing. Then, we were accused of “helping Trump”.
Like, the knowledge of how close we were was widely available. It was ignored. Why do you think “Defund the police” was considered a “middle ground” for those on the left? Notice who is doing the gestapo work? Cops.
We did. We had four years to throw this man in prison.
We go four years of lessons about how the rich and connected live by a totally different set of rules and laws from those of us that are not rich or connected.
Luigi demonstrated rather clearly that a bullet is equally effective on any man regardless of his wealth.
nah, luigi was with me when that CEO was being killed. whistles
Longer than that. His first presidency was more than 4 years ago.
We need to start talking about how we’re going to hold these people accountable once this is all over. And we need to think of methods that bypass SCOTUS all together.
I propose that we rendition ICE agents to the countries of their victims to face trial in foreign courts. Are you an ICE agent that sent a bunch of innocent Venezuelans off to die in a prison camp in Ghana? We’re shipping your ass to Venezuela to face trial for your crimes against Venezuelan citizens. Just bypass the US judicial system all together, same as Trump is doing. That way some future Republican president can’t just pardon these bastards, and we don’t have to worry about a criminally corrupt SCOTUS refusing to hold murderers accountable for their crimes.
That’s the thing about crimes against immigrants. In theory you can be prosecuted in either their current country or their home country. If you harm an immigrant in the US, even if the US justice system is incapable of holding you accountable, you could simply be extradited to the home nation of your victim.
Maybe, just maybe, you should consider withdrawing the ‘The Hague invasion act’, join the ICC treaty and send all those thugs (beginning with the Fuhrer himself, if he is still alive) to The Hague.
Worked well with Milosevic. It’s working well with Duterte. Would work with the Orange Fuhrer and his goons.
Hey? Unreal you blokes.
First you tell people from other countries to mind their own business when they tell you to take part in the easy method of dealing with it, then double down on it. Now you think other countries, who you told to mind their own business, should deal with those subhumans because you blokes can’t deal with it at the polling booth nor within the judiciary. As you point out, you don’t have to worry then, because someone else is dealing with it.
At not one single point in this does the US take responsibility, it’s all palmed off to other nations. Developing ones at that.
Every single ICE agent needs to be held to account.
We need to be talking about how to get all of this over with
I think it should be simple for ICE members: get the accounting books, see who is paid. Then execute them.
It isn’t kind, but clearly the mercy of Reconstruction and the Nuremberg trials (About 210 Nazis executed) allowed the bastards to be rooted in the culture of their nations. They must be treated like weeds, else they will come back.
The biggest worry here, is the books being falsified when the Hitlerites have clearly lost the war. They would likely add the names of their enemies to their books at the last minute. Hopefully, the Furry Hackers of the Allies would consistently obtain payment records, so that we can know when fake entries have been added.
They have to have due process but I agree that the punishments have been way too soft. The confederacy, the Jim Crow connected officials and the lynch mobs should have been dealt with after a trial with a jury made up of a jury of the community that they were targeting.
I figure that payment records is the closest we can get to due process. ICE wears masks to avoid retribution, and many of their victims will be killed to ensure their silence. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out a better way to track ICE membership, but I can’t think of it.
Yeah but the point of due process (especially since you specifically mentioned executions), is to make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the person did the thing they’re accused of.
Otherwise, you make mistakes and you kill innocent people. Due process includes gathering the evidence you mentioned, but then also making sure that it’s real and valid and not just someone who didn’t like their neighbor so reported them or what have you
There are no innocent employees collecting checks from DHS.
That is why ICE is problematic, because they deliberately try to avoid being identified. At some point, we have to choose: do we allow many members of ICE live because of their duplicity, or do we remove them from society, despite not having much information?
It isn’t a great situation. That is why collecting records is important, so that we can obtain a reasonable justice. After having an answer of “Did they serve ICE?” of yes or no, it becomes possible to indict ICE as a class of war criminal. ICE certainly wouldn’t even bother to check for citizenship before sending children abroad without parents, court orders, nor consent, so it is reasonable to have a relatively low standard for whether ICE staff should die. They are effectively genocidal traffickers by choice, and at some point, the restraint of mercy becomes foolishness.
The evil of ICE is corrosive like that, it affects everyone in their vicinity. Unfortunately, an end to a civil war where ICE is allowed to live, just means that they get to continue corroding our humanity decades after, as would their families in the centuries to come. It is better to commit the evil of execution against ICE, in order to prevent their evil by choice from growing strong in the garden of our society.
I agree. I just think we need to be careful about calling for foregoing due process.
Due process is also important in order to make sure that the person’s punishment sticks (not execution as that one obviously sticks). Because you might not care about the rule of law, but the next guy might. Or the judge ruling over the person’s appeal might.
You might not allow them to appeal, but whoever comes next might, and if you didn’t do shit right, they can have all of the charges thrown out. And possibly, rightfully so.
Cowardice. You need to talk about how to stop it, but that’s too uncomfortable and cuts into your daily routine. Why the fuck are you only interested in doing something after you can’t save their lives anymore?
Yeah but have you considered
The House has tabled this resolution