The Medical University of South Carolina initially said it wouldn’t be affected by a law banning use of state funds for treatment “furthering the gender transition” of children under 16. Months later, it cut off that care to all trans minors.

One Saturday morning in September 2022, Terrence Steyer, the dean of the College of Medicine at the Medical University of South Carolina, placed an urgent call to a student. Just a year prior, the medical student, Thomas Agostini, had won first place at a university-sponsored event for his graduate research on transgender pediatric patients. He also had been featured in a video on MUSC’s website highlighting resources that support the LGBTQ+ community.

Now, Agostini and his once-lauded study had set off a political firestorm. Conservative activists seized on one line in particular in the study’s summary — a parenthetical noting the youngest transgender patient to visit MUSC’s pediatric endocrinology clinic was 4 years old — and inaccurately claimed that children that young were prescribed hormones as part of a gender transition. Elon Musk amplified the false claim, tweeting, “Is it really true that four-year-olds are receiving hormone treatment?” That led federal and state lawmakers to frantically ask top MUSC leaders whether the public hospital was in fact helping young children medically transition. The hospital was not; its pediatric transgender patients did not receive hormone therapy before puberty, nor does it offer surgical options to minors.

  • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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    Medicalization of trans children, even those who are entering puberty or beyond, is a bad idea. There needs to be more research on the safety of puberty blockers and cross sex endogenous hormones for long term medical outcomes including cancer and heart disease risks. Once you are an adult, sure, do whatever you want to your body; but there is a different ethical consideration for minors.

    • agent_flounder@lemmy.world
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      You’re not a doctor. There have been studies and there will be more.

      What about the ethical consideration of teens suffering and killing themselves because of gender dysphoria? Does that not matter?

      This isn’t some “nice to have” this is important medical treatment to save lives, improve quality of life, improve outcomes.

      Politicians have no fucking business denying healthcare to trans people.

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        The “they will die if they don’t get gender affirming care” narrative is so harmful. Women who should qualify for gender affirming care (eg, hair removal from PCOS-induced hirsutism) aren’t considered the same way. Do their feelings matter less? Are they really commiting suicide in large numbers because they do not have this treatment (perhaps it’s unaffordable because health insurance doesn’t cover it)?

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          Do you know a lot of girls with PCOS who are being bullied to the point of violence? Because that’s exactly what happened to the trans girl I grew up with 30 years ago. Long before she ever said she was a girl or presented as a girl in public. When she just “looked like” an effeminate little boy, another child wrapped her scarf around her neck and around a piece of playground equipment and started pulling her off the ground by her throat.

          You know why? Because she was wearing a glittery purple scarf. And you know what the school administration did about it? Not one fucking thing. Her mother and my mother had to go on a crusade to even get the incident acknowledged.

          Yeah, I wonder why trans kids have such high suicide rates. It’s not magic, you ignorant FART. You’re part of the problem driving these kids to experience high suicide rates.

          (Feminism Appropriating Radical Transphobe, for anyone who isn’t familiar with this much more appropriate acronym for a TERF.)

          • nugmeister64@lemmy.world
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            bro that’s fucking horrible and nobody should have to go through that but making people go through irreversible chemical, hormonal, and physical “treatments” instead of even trying to help their mental anguish is even worse. That’s literally saying that cutting body parts off and gaslighting yourself into being okay with it is a reasonable fix toward feeling uncomfortable in your body, they should have the root issue addressed rather than having the entire medical field shit on them by making them think mutilating themselves is the right and empowering choice. they’ve fooled everyone including you, and it’s all for money, because these “treatments” rake in ridiculous amounts of money and would bring in more money than just fixing their real issues so they can live a happy life phisically and chemically intact.

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              I knew this child from BIRTH. She’s the same age as my younger sister and they were very good friends growing up. From the instant this kid could express preferences - I’m talking 18 months-2 years old - we knew something was up because here’s this little boy who wants to wear dresses, play with dolls, and sneaks into mom’s high heels and makeup at home.

              We just assumed she was a gay boy because none of us had ever even heard of a transgender person 30-35 years ago. Believe me, everyone discouraged this. The constant battle finally met a stalemate agreement to just keep it at home. Even then, this kid was irrepressible, hence the glittery purple scarf at school.

              When she told us in high school that she was really a girl, it was the most face-palmingly obvious thing, like of course that’s what we’ve been seeing your entire life. That makes so much sense.

              SHE initiated that conversation. No one EVER pushed her to do anything. She was a very active participant in her own medical decisions, which is medically appropriate for a teenager. (I’m a nurse. Teenagers should participate in their own medical decisions.)

              She started puberty blockers, started living openly as a girl in RURAL OHIO 30 YEARS AGO and it was not a big fucking deal until you assholes suddenly decided it was a few years ago. She didn’t receive any permanent medical treatment for transition until she was 18.

              Believe me, son, she’s PERFECTLY INTACT, happier than you, and you can fuck the fuck right off with that horse shit terminology.

              • nugmeister64@lemmy.world
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                what part of any of those things is female? you don’t have to be female to enjoy “stereotypically” female things. that’s pretty sexist and shortsighted of you, so I’m not surprised why, when surrounded with assumptions like that, they would feel the need to justify those preferences with being “female”. maybe if you and the rest of their family were more open minded and accepted them for who they are, they wouldn’t feel they had to transition in the first place.

                • Chetzemoka@startrek.website
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                  Oh fuck off. You know damn well that 90% of society would raise an eyebrow at a 3 year old boy trudging around in high heels and getting into mom’s lipstick.

                  NO ONE TOLD HER SHE WAS TRANS. SHE SAID THAT.

                  What part of this was self-determined is hard for you to understand? Transition was 100% initiated and driven BY HER. It’s what she wanted because it’s what she understood herself to be inside her own mind.

            • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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              Umm… You have fallen for some massive misinformation friend. The first stages of a transition are a trial period where one figures out what their individual needs are. Medical providers are actually pretty cagey about regret so if you are a trans youth this involves a therapist and a social worker who talks woith thw kids and their guardians.

              As an adult this means basically doing dry runs of everything. Name change, social transition, binding, packing and talking to other trans people to see what worked for them. Inside the community itself there’s a lot of people don’t medically transition ever. For a solid chunk the social aspects alone give them the tools they need to get by okay…which is why if someone is pointing to someone and screaming about how their pronouns are going to destroy society it’s really not great! Adding pressure by removing all the mental tools they need to get through their day in the body they have and telling them they are fake and just wanting attention doesn’t achieve the aim of dissuading people from desiring medical transition. Quite the opposite.

              Look a little bit further into non-binary identies and you will find a lot of trans people who have embraced halfway transition. Sometimes it’s just a single sex characteristic you can’t get over, sometimes your sense of identity isn’t stable over the long term so a medical transition doesn’t work for you. The point being is there’s a lot of different trans people out there who have all approached being trans very differently. What works for one doesn’t work for all so you share your experiences to find differences and similarity, experiment, really drill down into how you react to everything and I mean EVERYTHING… You lay out your values, fears, life goals, relationships, body image issues, spirituality - all of it and you itemize it. You figure out what you really want out of life, what you stand to lose and what you hope to gain by either staying as you are or pursing something else.

              Trying to figure out your gender identity happens as a period of self experimentation over the course of years before you go to a doc about a physical transformation and pushing someone towards a medical transition as the only option is a subsect of “trans medicalism” which inside the community itself is generally policed as an asshole thing to levy at someone.

              So when you come out the gate with “The first thing they do is chop off their bits!”… No. That is not how any of this works.

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                I understand your point of view, it’s good that there’s a lot of care taken to make sure the mental impact of transitioning is minimal, but the point is this is a huge amount of work to help someone try and cope with “being” something that doesn’t align with what what they were born and biologically formed as. It’s a noble sentiment, but we should be approaching the whole issue in a way that helps people realize that they don’t have to change to be themselves.

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                  we should be approaching the whole issue in a way that helps people realize that they don’t have to change to be themselves.

                  That is literally the first thing the majority of transgender people try. Usually for years if not decades, before they finally accept who they are and transition.

            • darq@kbin.social
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              they’ve fooled everyone including you, and it’s all for money, because these “treatments” rake in ridiculous amounts of money

              No they don’t.

              Most HRT is less than $50 a month. And trans people make up 1% of the population. Surgery is expensive, but even fewer trans people get those, they tend to be one-offs, and are only performed by a few specialists.

              In comparison, therapy costs $100 a week.

              You think medical and research organisations in countries all around the world are all risking their reputations to obscure the truth on a highly scrutinised treatment, in order to… Make less money than if they suggested therapy? To take less than fifty bucks a month from one percent of the population?

              • nugmeister64@lemmy.world
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                just because it’s less expensive doesn’t mean it’s right either, just hacking off your body parts to feel “right” in your own body is even cheaper but that doesn’t make it tight, because you shouldn’t have to feel that way in the first place.

                • darq@kbin.social
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                  No no, don’t move the goalposts.

                  You made a claim of conspiracy, that people are being lead to transition because the treatments “rake in ridiculous amounts of money and would bring in more money than just fixing their real issues”.

                  That claim is complete nonsense, and you pulled it out of your arse.

                  Acknowledge that.

            • Tywèle [she|her]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              Nobody is forcing trans people to go through medical transition. But medical transition is what helps them relieve their mental anguish.

              Being transgender is not a mental illness.

              • nugmeister64@lemmy.world
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                if destroying the physical and chemical makeup of one’s body is necessary to make them feel “right” in it, then it’s definitely not a non-issue either, the fact that someone feels that way in the first place goes against their genetic and chemical makeup, as well as their physical formations resulting from that makeup, which gives you the undeniable truth of what you “actually” are, rather than any thoughts or emotions one might have.

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      Literal ignorance. There are already studies.

      “GnRHa treatment did not seem to have a particularly adverse effect on reproductive function or bone growth.”

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/

      Puberty blockers only with social transition until age 18 are the standard of care given to the trans girl I grew up with 30 years ago. She didn’t start exogenous hormones or surgery until she was a legal adult. None of this is new and the people you’re listening to are literally just making things up.

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2798007

    • fluxion@lemmy.world
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      Imagine everything about you is exactly the same, but you were born with the wrong body parts and as a result your had to spend your entire childhood pretending to be the opposite sex. It’s not just some adult choice you make like going to college, it’s you.

      Your points are valid, but there are moral implications to both sides and it’s disgusting how ignorant and close-minded idiot politicians and billionaires like Musk are about it while actual medical professionals are trying their best to navigate these complex situations. No science will ever change their minds, this is an extension of an ongoing campaign against all trans people, equating them with “groomers” and dudes trying to sneak into girl locker rooms or win sports games. More distractions from the real enemies of human decency and free societies.

      • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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        If I were a child now, I would potentially be pushed to be trans or NB. I was a tomboy child with a solid interest in math and science. I had a fraught childhood with a medical surgery pushed on me (it could have waited). If I were presented with this idea, maybe I would have thought it fits me, especially because at least certain segments of the trans theory/argument seems to hinge on enforcing gender roles. Turns out, I’m just a woman in STEM.

        • darq@kbin.social
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          If I were a child now, I would potentially be pushed to be trans or NB.

          No that’s not how that works. People aren’t “pushed” into becoming trans, let alone into a medical transition. Trans people, especially trans youths, usually have to fight tooth and nail to have their identities taken seriously, and even harder to access healthcare.

          especially because at least certain segments of the trans argument seems to hinge on enforcing gender roles.

          This is just such tired nonsense. I have never met a community more supportive of people breaking gender norms than transgender and non-binary people.

          • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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            Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles in schools is a bad idea in my opinion. The “genderbread person” that pops up is one instance, and it’s discussion of gender includes gender roles: those are societal expectations of actions and characteristics.

            Regarding gender roles, how do you respond to the current zeitgeist that asks if gender nonconforming women in literature and film are in fact trans? For example, Jo March in Little Women, and Mulan.

            • darq@kbin.social
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              Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles in schools is a bad idea in my opinion.

              Gender is a concept that exists. That kids will interact with throughout their lives. They deserve to be equipped with the information that helps them makes sense of that.

              The “genderbread person” that pops up is one instance, and it’s discussion of gender includes gender roles: those are societal expectations of actions and characteristics.

              It doesn’t include gender roles in any version that I have seen.

              The closest I’ve seen it get to gender roles is “gender expression”, which it touches on to explicitly separate the concept of gendered expression, from gender identity and biological sex.

              In other words, it does the exact opposite of the thing you fear that it does. Its entire purpose is to state that the things you described about yourself earlier, such as being a tomboy, are separate from gender identity and biological sex. That being a tomboy, or having interests that are stereotypically gendered, DO NOT make you that gender.

              Regarding gender roles, how do you respond to the current zeitgeist that asks if gender nonconforming women in literature and film are in fact trans? For example, Jo March in Little Women, and Mulan.

              Those can be interesting conversations even if the answer at the end is “they’re still cisgender”. Cisgender people have been writing gender into stories for a long time, and a lot of those stories do end up have themes very relatable for trans people. Relooking at media through a queer lens is not harmful.

            • agent_flounder@lemmy.world
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              Do you also feel it is wrong to talk about homosexuality in school in any form? You support “don’t say gay” laws? How about discussion of racism? Or mental health issues?

              • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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                You assume so much. Homosexuality is real. I do not support “don’t say gay” laws. Sexuality and gender do not equate.

                Yes, racism is real and should be discussed. Mental health should be discussed. In fact I have historically been a big advocate for discussing it among the interns and early career staff at my workplace.

                Despite the narrative that all people who question the current trans identity theory are conservative idiots, there are people who are actual scientists, feminists, and others who care about society that don’t agree with all of it. Shouting them down is only going to create an oppressive echo chamber.

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                  I didn’t assume you were a right wing nut which is why I asked about these other topics.

                  Gender dysphoria is no less real. People experience it. I’m sorry to hear you disbelieve them. It’s the same kind of energy as a white person telling a black person they’re imagining racism. Or a person telling a depressed person they should just cheer up or that depression doesn’t exist.

                  Not talking about gender dysphoria doesn’t make it go away, though. Trans people existed before it was a common topic (like when I was growing up in the 70s). Just like gay people existed before it was talked about much.

                  Talking about a gender dysphoria does not somehow alter a kid’s sense of self even if they are a kid. You may argue “so many kids are coming out as trans”.

                  Prevalent bigotry, hatred, and even offhand dismissal (like you’re doing) tends to pressure people deny their identities (eventually they will have to face it, like my college friend, who came out as trans decades later) or tends to pressure them into staying in the closet. But when society becomes more accepting you find more people comfortable with being open about who they are.

                  We saw this happen with homosexuality between the 70s and now. We see the same thing with gender identity/expression. We find more kids are comfortable coming out as gay. Likewise more kids feel safe coming forward with gender dysphoria. Despite people trying to tell them they’re not actually experiencing what they’re experiencing. (You’re not depressed just a little sad; cheer up!)

                  And by the way, delaying puberty isn’t done willy nilly, it’s reserved for the most extreme cases of gender dysphoria and where entering puberty causes substantial additional distress following established guidelines.

                  If you don’t want to shout down scientists then tell me why it is ok for politicians to shut down actual medical treatment governed by medical ethics and protocols?

                  If scientific consensus comes up with better treatments, let’s use them. If they find issues with current treatments, act accordingly.

                  But keep politicians out of it and leave it to physicians and medical research and parents.

            • Shapillon@lemmy.world
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              Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles is a bad idea imo.

              I wholeheartedly agree with what you said there! (even if it might not be what you meant)

              We should treat children (and people at large) as neutrally as possible and wait for them to decide for themselves.

              Like no expressed expectations, just some tools to understand who they are :)

              Gender and gender roles have always been there, what’s promoted is understanding of these concepts and self determination.

              Genderbread person

              What’s the issue with that?

              It’s pretty neutral and just defines some terms (sex, gender identity, gender expression, romantic and sexual attraction) and not much more imho.

              Regarding gender roles…

              To me this feels as a non-issue. Trans folks don’t have much in terms of representation. It’s a natural pattern to try to identify with figures that look the most like you. A tomboy girl and a transmasc boy can at the same time identify themselves with e.g. Mulan without impeding on each other’s interpretation, can’t they?

        • agent_flounder@lemmy.world
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          It’s a flat out lie that kids are pushed to be trans.

          Most kids with gender dysphoria are lucky if their parents even support them at all. If anything the parents push kids away from it, as is the case with my kid’s friend. In the worst cases parents even reject the kid altogether. They think they’re doing the best thing for their kid but in fact it is exactly the opposite.

          Trans kids often face bigotry and persecution and violence. And you think most parents, knowing this, would want that for their kid unless it was obviously what the kid wants??

          Also keep in mind that just because you were a tomboy but not trans doesn’t mean gender dysphoria doesn’t exist.

        • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.one
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          Literal right-wing propaganda. “ThEy PuSh KiDs To Be TrAnS.” You’re a disgusting person.

          Edit: This user is also a mod on a lemmy.world community! Wtf. Remove this fucker.

          • Syrc@lemmy.world
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            Edit: This user is also a mod on a lemmy.world community! Wtf. Remove this fucker.

            It has like 11 monthly members and isn’t related to anything harmful, I don’t think it’s that much of an issue for admins to step in.

        • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.ee
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          Stop lapping up right wing propaganda and start hanging out with people who actually are inclusive.

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          How would you be “pushed?” Who would do it?

          What does a random surgery being “pushed” on you have to do with this conversation? Did it have anything to do with gender? What do you mean by this?

          I’m asking all these questions in attempt to discuss this in good faith.

        • Joshua Nozzi@lemmy.ml
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          I think it “turns out” you’re just an anti-trans liar making things up to support your bigotry. Just stop.

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          Imagine being this stupid. Well, I suppose you don’t have to.

          Consider talking to a trans person and how they found their identity, or learning more about the ways gender identity is expressed or how gender influences society, or maybe just touch grass every once in a while instead of being a shitty person pretending to know something you clearly don’t.

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      Why does every major medical organization and over a million doctors disagree with you?

      • Murvel@lemm.ee
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        Why does every major medical organization and over a million doctors disagree with you?

        No, not really and I don’t know what you base that on.

        KI, the largest medical research center in Sweden and one of the largest in the world did a systemic study on the research basis of hormone treatment and concluded that treating gender dysphoria in children should only be considered experimental.

        https://news.ki.se/systematic-review-on-outcomes-of-hormonal-treatment-in-youths-with-gender-dysphori

          • Murvel@lemm.ee
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            Complete tinfoil hat but you tell yourself whatever you need to get trough the day.

            I point to research, you point to whatever the fuck that is. I expected more from this community tbh but shit…

        • webadict@lemmy.world
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          Yes really. Your study suggests doing more studies, not that the effects were negative (because if they were, the conclusion would be no further studies.) At the end of the paper, it also pointed out newer studies not included in the 196 studies out of the 10,000 it pretends to have looked it that found the benefits did exist (nd even then, it really only looked at a couple dozen studies exhaustively).

          The biases that your study shows are known, and fucking obvious to anyone that has talked to a trans person once in their lifetime: There aren’t many long-term studies. This is due to obvious reasons, like discrimination, lack of support, and higher chance of being murdered, which most people don’t want. The study also seemed to show that the bone density issue wasn’t as pronounced as some nay-sayers seem to think, but they bury that in the data analysis and hide behind a more hardline in the synopsis. Additionally, you can’t really do a randomized approach in this case because of fucking ethical concerns! Obviously!!! Randomly giving out hormones seems like a bad idea, both to people that want it and people that don’t!

          But, you don’t really give a shit because you didn’t read the study, and also you hate trans people, and that’s what you actually care about.

          • Murvel@lemm.ee
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            Data on the effects on psychosocial health are lacking but there is some evidence that hormonal treatment may impact on bone maturation. The researchers conclude that hormonal treatment of gender dysphoria in this age group should be regarded as experimental treatment rather than standard procedure.

            It’s the second paragraph, read the damn thing.

            How long did it take you to spell out this nonsense anyway? Probably longer than reading the article…

            Also I don’t hate trans people, that’s just your small-minded assumption you ignorant fuck. I linked an article, that’s it.

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              I did read the thing, and explained how they pointed out the bone density in the data, but obviously, you only read the second paragraph.

              But, you’re right, I didn’t read the entire thing, so could you quote section 3.5 under Results for me, since I’m obviously unable to read? It’s the one that might be labeled “Bone health outcomes” if I could read. Assuming that I can’t read, and looking at the studies examined, it appears that the loss of bone density is pretty inconclusive, especially when hormones are taken earlier, but there were two studies that showed a minor decrease in bone density in transwomen when using puberty blockers, by a smaller margin than I had previously thought (you can read studies 21 and 22 so my illiteracy doesn’t affect you.)

              Or would you like to quote the portion about Psychosocial and mental health under section 3.3? What the study shows seems to be that 4 of the 6 studies had some improvement (14, 15, 16, 17), though it should be noted that study 19 was about testing fucking brain activations (no decline in that!) and not about mental health, and study 18 was about initial reduction in symptoms from their first appointment, so really, 4 out of 4 studies showed an improvement.

              Dipshit.

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                lmao, dude, you’re just rambling, wtf are you talking about You said:

                Why does every major medical organization and over a million doctors disagree with you?

                I pointed to a comprehensive study that shows that it is clearly not the case.

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                  1 year ago

                  Where does it say “Medicalization of trans children is a bad idea”? Because I only read that it’s not researched enough and might have reversible side effects.

                  • Murvel@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    The researchers conclude that hormonal treatment of gender dysphoria in this age group should be regarded as experimental treatment rather than standard procedure.

                    They conclude that it shouldn’t be standard practice and only considered experimental. Isn’t that enough?

                • webadict@lemmy.world
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                  I pointed out the studies flaws because you didn’t read it, can’t interpret it yourself, and are not a doctor. Here is a list of actual major medical organizations that suggest gender-affirming care for trans youth:

                  American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
                  
                  American Academy of Dermatology
                  
                  American Academy of Family Physicians
                  
                  American Academy of Nursing
                  
                  American Academy of Pediatrics
                  
                  American Academy of Physician Assistants
                  
                  American College Health Association
                  
                  American College of Nurse-Midwives
                  
                  American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
                  
                  American College of Physicians
                  
                  American Counseling Association
                  
                  American Heart Association
                  
                  American Medical Association
                  
                  American Medical Student Association
                  
                  American Nurses Association
                  
                  American Osteopathic Association
                  
                  American Psychiatric Association
                  
                  American Psychological Association
                  
                  American Public Health Association
                  
                  American Society of Plastic Surgeons
                  
                  Endocrine Society
                  
                  Federation of Pediatric Organizations
                  
                  GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality
                  
                  National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health
                  
                  National Association of Social Workers
                  
                  National Commission on Correctional Health Care
                  
                  Pediatric Endocrine Society
                  
                  Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine
                  
                  World Medical Association
                  
                  World Professional Association for Transgender Health
                  

                  And if the WPATH didn’t find actual health benefits that outweighed the actual downsides for puberty blockers and hormonal treatments, then they fucking wouldn’t recommend them. This would be obvious to anyone that knew anything.

                  • Murvel@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    I didn’t write the study. If you think it’s flawed take that up with the researches who did write it.

    • Shirasho@lemmings.world
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      There lies the contradiction. How can there be more studies when everyone is fighting against it? You just said two totally opposing things.

      • cannache@slrpnk.net
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        Okay this is where we agree. I would not be against something if it were a matter of holding back basic human curiosity.

      • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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        I did not. There are many ways the application of hormones can be studied, including to populations who take them for other medical reasons and animal models. The current application of these drugs to children amounts to an wide unregulated medical experiment; typically medical studies require strong oversight from ethics boards.

        There are some truly sad stories of childhood detransitioners, like Chloe Cole.

        • MiscreantMouse@kbin.social
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          So you’re just making stuff up to get angry about. Big studies show de-transition rates are drastically below rates of regret for most common surgeries, including medically-necessary knee surgery, and cosmetic breast augmentation (which teenage cis girls get, and regret, all the time).

          Many de-transtioners are just bullied out of medical care by people like yourself, only to re-transition later. The most common reasons cited for detransition were pressure from a parent (36%), transitioning was too hard (33%), too much harassment or discrimination (31%), and trouble getting a job (29%).

          Supporting trans kids is mostly just about clothes/name/pronouns, and the only thing they’re offered is puberty blockers, which were used safely in cisgender children with precocious puberty for decades before people like you started distorting the facts.

          You’re just another bigot spreading medical misinformation in a bad-faith attempt to block medical care for a stigmatized minority group, and you should feel bad about it. Shame.

    • Pheonixdown@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      How do you propose doing research other than through informed consent from willing volunteers? Let alone that this whole chain of events even stemmed from a research paper! How are they supposed to do the research you said they need to do, when they’re actively punished for doing it?

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      Puberty blockers aren’t new drugs. They already have a long history of testing and documentation; we already know their relative safety.

    • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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      If we don’t know then isn’t it a coin toss if the adverse effects of the trans healthcare are worse than the adverse effects of not receiving it? Unfortunately we don’t always have 100% knowledge of how things are going to turn out when it comes to health issues and we have to make the best of what we do know. Which should be left to healthcare professionals and their patients to work out together what is best. Not fucking politicians.

    • interceder270@lemmy.world
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      I don’t really buy the ‘more medical research’ argument. When is enough enough? Shouldn’t there already be an abundance of cases where there are issues considering these procedures have been going on for decades?

      I do, however, buy the significantly less popular argument that these kids might make the wrong decision and then come to regret it later. This goes both ways.

      • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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        There is actually a fair amount of trans regret that exists where people who transitioned as adults due to a number of factors have to get over the jealousy and regret that comes from comparing their transitions to the ones that other people experienced with transition during puberty. It’s a thing for sure amongst trans femmes particularly because not passing comes with so many downsides and dangers.

        It’s useful to remember that a LOT of care is made to ensure that the choice is made with everybody as informed as they possibly can be which is why puberty blockers are used to buy more time before making a decision what puberty is going to look like. The main team for a trans youth involves a specialist therapist, a social worker, a pediatrician and an endocrinologist but nothing happens if the parent or guardian doesn’t sign off. There is a lot to know which is why if you ever meet someone who transitioned early they know their shit.

        Those who do come to regret their transition (which is actually a lot lower than almost any surgery due to the care taken beforehand) are also usually not super bitter. Like they acknowledge that their situation sucks do not get me wrong… But most of them know a lot of other trans people because they reach out to find people in their situation. They also see how those people’s lives have been radically changed for the better by the going through the process. The reason a lot of them don’t speak out is because they would be imperiling something that they know is lifesaving for people they know and they have first hand knowledge about the care that was taken on their behalf.

        • Omniraptor@lemm.ee
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          (Or they were able to somehow get semilegal diy hormones while still a minor)

          As for detransitioners, I don’t see that as a good reason for not speaking out (not telling them what to do ofc it’s their decision). But staying quiet opens up more space for people who do claim it ruined their lives. So they speak unopposed and get fox news TV spots and book deals and promote more gatekeeping to protect the children. While afaik in reality most people who regret/detransition do it because of transphobia from their relatives or their workplace or smth

          • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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            Well that’s just it. If you are miserable because the system doesn’t help you then you go outside the system.

            Detransitioners (not ones who temporarily suspend their horomones or goals for medical or life goal reasons like having a kid) are really rare comparatively so even if you know one you’re kind of an outlier, finding a second to compare their experiences against is something you probably have to seek out.

            One thing that you get really used to as a trans person is people ignoring what you say and twisting whatever was said to match your point. If you detransition because the social cost was too high chances are also good you don’t want to put yourself in the crosshairs and risk Conservatives quoting everything you say out of context or just be dismissed as “just one crazy’s opinion”.

            There’s also an unfair situation inside the community where since people have had the very existence of detransitioners used to do them personal harm by conservatives a lot of people are primed to see detransitioners as a threat. Not all trans folks are saints and fear doesn’t bring out the best in people I’m afraid.

            Those who decide to do the whole tv spot book deal thing are those who basically don’t care who they hurt for personal gain. That lack of empathy is in itself a narrowing factor. There isn’t so much a market on the left to be elevated like that because you have way more trans voices making stuff with a range of opinions. People on the left don’t need to be swayed by detransitioners when they already understand trans discrimination and trans joy.

            It’s easier to be elevated to the top when you are a basically a super rare prop for someone’s re-election campaign. A lot of the liberal situation isn’t throwing their support unanimously behind trans rights… A lot of them are kind of hoping you forget about trans people because they think that will lose them support so they fronting other issues leaving trans people do their own advocacy.

    • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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      Medical use of puberty blockers has been approved by the FDA and used since 1993… There were trans participants of the original study who were 13 years old during the trial in 1988 which means the first people to receive this as teens are now 48 years old… Also that trial was based on a lot of information we already had on intersex paitents and people with horomone related endocrine disorders.

      There is a lot more long term data than you think. This need for “MORE RESEARCH!” ignores what has already done and is just a tactic to move the goal posts so there never is enough reasonable burden of proof.

        • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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          Ideally you will have received a series of vaccines throughout your lifetime. Anti-science people aren’t truly anti-vax: they’re anti-THIS-vax, like their 18th vaccination is somehow the poison.

          • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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            Yes, I have, and I continue to urge people to wear masks, get vaccinated, I get my dogs vaccinated; I urge people to vote, I believe systemic racism exists, etc. Despite the narrative that people try to push that all those opposed to medically transitioning children are right-wing conservatives, I am not. I am also a trained scientist with a PhD from a public Ivy university. I do not think that the current zeitgeist surrounding this issue has been resolved through rigorous science and the best attempts to do no harm: to everyone.

            • darq@kbin.social
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              I do not think that the current zeitgeist surrounding this issue has been resolved through rigorous science and the best attempts to do no harm: to everyone.

              The problem is that in order to prevent the incredibly rare occurrence of a cisgender person mistakenly undergoing transition, you are advocating for policies that would force a far greater number of transgender people to undergo that same horror.

                • darq@kbin.social
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                  sigh I don’t know why I bother speaking with TERFs.

                  There is harm being done to the entire class of women for the loss of the concept of sex as the source of female oppression. Sex matters and these distinctions are being removed in language.

                  Firstly, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote or the chain of comments thus far. It’s just a completely non-sequitur accusation.

                  But secondly, this isn’t happening.

                  An intersectional understanding of oppression and privilege does not erase the oppression cisgender women face.

                  And the distinctions in language are absolutely not being removed. The words “transgender” and “cisgender” exist precisely to make discussing these issues in a clear and respectful manner possible. That’s exactly what those words are for.

              • CherenkovBlue@iusearchlinux.fyi
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                1 year ago

                Thank you. Today I decided I didn’t just want to silence my opinion and contribute to an echo chamber. (Tomorrow I will probably go back to upvoting cat memes.)

    • Ultraviolet@lemmy.world
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      There are plenty of studies. The “no studies” thing is a bad faith argument from deliberately misunderstanding the way medical studies work. The theoretical ideal of a double blind study has serious ethical problems when it involves giving a placebo to someone who would be seriously harmed by being denied care, so not all studies are done that way.