Anyone saying they’re the bad guys is armchair quarterback-ing a people’s fight against annihilation.
If YOUR people lived in a militarily patrolled, constantly surveilled, walled off piece of your former homeland, from which you couldn’t leave to go visit a hospital without your oppressor’s army’s approval, and that same army tried to calculate food rations to keep you only just above starvation to keep you passive, and could arrest without cause and indefinitely hold you….would you really say that a group of your people were wrong for lashing out? Now on top of that, the civilian populace can be given permission by that same government to take arms and evict you and your family from your ancestral home. Are you wrong for lashing out?
Raping women and little girls isn’t “lashing out” or “taking arms”. Neither is murdering children. Israel’s treatment of Palestinians has been, and still is, abhorrent. But let’s not pretend that rape and child murder are a necessary part of struggle against oppression. Hamas aren’t the only bad guys, but they’re definitely bad guys.
But I think when people say things like “what did you expect to happen [given the Palestinians material conditions]” or even “not all Palestinians are Hamas” all they hear is “Jews bad! America bad!” Because, basically, they’re programmed to.
Who do you blame for the deaths of innocent German civilians during World War 2? I blame Hitler, but it sounds like you blame the Allies for fighting back.
Like many things in life, the answer isn’t “either this or that.” Plenty of blame to go around.
Many deaths because of Hitler, but what about Nazi leadership? When you consider things like the firebombing of Dresden it turns into an even greyer shade of grey.
Considering nuance takes more effort, but ultimately it’s more rewarding than black and white thinking.
I don’t really understand the down votes, so I must not have made myself clear in my last comment. My point was that Hitler and Nazi leadership caused all of that to happen. If Hitler hadn’t been such a monster and invaded the rest of Europe, Dresden would have never been firebombed. Similarly if Israel hasn’t tried to genocide Palestinians, there wouldn’t have been an attack on the music festival.
Horrible things happen during war. The only way to prevent that is by not starting one to begin with. I agree that Hamas has done terrible things, but the blame must ultimately lie with Israel.
Hitler, Nazi leadership, Nazi soldiers, Swiss bankers, the Ribbentrop Pact… allied commanders, allied bomber pilots. They all have some of the responsibility for civilians burning in Dresden etc.
I blame Israel more for the current situation too.
There’s a stark difference between “Israel is the greater of two evils” and “Israel is evil, Hamas is against Israel. Hamas must be good.”. I don’t think most people are trying to push the idea that Israel is good outside of MSM news outlets and their audiences. At least not here.
That’s a whole other discussion, but what are the Palestinian people to do under an illegal occupation that aims for genocide? That said, Palestinians are not Hamas, and Israel did a lot to support Hamas to thwart the Palestinian Authority. The history is long and complicated, but I just asked for links, since I have not seen those posts.
Right. Why not peacefully protest? I’m pretty sure that the desperation needed to throw a rock at a tank is incomprehensible to entitled Americans who have never missed a meal out of necessity. There is very little real support for the Palestinian genocide, but a strong false narrative. This article has some descriptions of the day to day struggle of Palestinians living under apartheid.
Can you please provide urls to posts saying hamas are good guys?
Anyone saying they’re the bad guys is armchair quarterback-ing a people’s fight against annihilation.
If YOUR people lived in a militarily patrolled, constantly surveilled, walled off piece of your former homeland, from which you couldn’t leave to go visit a hospital without your oppressor’s army’s approval, and that same army tried to calculate food rations to keep you only just above starvation to keep you passive, and could arrest without cause and indefinitely hold you….would you really say that a group of your people were wrong for lashing out? Now on top of that, the civilian populace can be given permission by that same government to take arms and evict you and your family from your ancestral home. Are you wrong for lashing out?
What a fucking joke.
Raping women and little girls isn’t “lashing out” or “taking arms”. Neither is murdering children. Israel’s treatment of Palestinians has been, and still is, abhorrent. But let’s not pretend that rape and child murder are a necessary part of struggle against oppression. Hamas aren’t the only bad guys, but they’re definitely bad guys.
I don’t think anyone is contesting that.
But I think when people say things like “what did you expect to happen [given the Palestinians material conditions]” or even “not all Palestinians are Hamas” all they hear is “Jews bad! America bad!” Because, basically, they’re programmed to.
This is soft selling war crimes. Shame on you.
All war is crime.
The real question is can an occupying force claim self defence?
i agree with the general point, but calling people at a music festival an occupying force seems disingenuous.
Who do you blame for the deaths of innocent German civilians during World War 2? I blame Hitler, but it sounds like you blame the Allies for fighting back.
Like many things in life, the answer isn’t “either this or that.” Plenty of blame to go around.
Many deaths because of Hitler, but what about Nazi leadership? When you consider things like the firebombing of Dresden it turns into an even greyer shade of grey.
Considering nuance takes more effort, but ultimately it’s more rewarding than black and white thinking.
FWIW I didn’t downvote you.
I don’t really understand the down votes, so I must not have made myself clear in my last comment. My point was that Hitler and Nazi leadership caused all of that to happen. If Hitler hadn’t been such a monster and invaded the rest of Europe, Dresden would have never been firebombed. Similarly if Israel hasn’t tried to genocide Palestinians, there wouldn’t have been an attack on the music festival.
Horrible things happen during war. The only way to prevent that is by not starting one to begin with. I agree that Hamas has done terrible things, but the blame must ultimately lie with Israel.
Hitler, Nazi leadership, Nazi soldiers, Swiss bankers, the Ribbentrop Pact… allied commanders, allied bomber pilots. They all have some of the responsibility for civilians burning in Dresden etc.
I blame Israel more for the current situation too.
There’s a stark difference between “Israel is the greater of two evils” and “Israel is evil, Hamas is against Israel. Hamas must be good.”. I don’t think most people are trying to push the idea that Israel is good outside of MSM news outlets and their audiences. At least not here.
You’re an idiot.
That’s a whole other discussion, but what are the Palestinian people to do under an illegal occupation that aims for genocide? That said, Palestinians are not Hamas, and Israel did a lot to support Hamas to thwart the Palestinian Authority. The history is long and complicated, but I just asked for links, since I have not seen those posts.
Right. Why not peacefully protest? I’m pretty sure that the desperation needed to throw a rock at a tank is incomprehensible to entitled Americans who have never missed a meal out of necessity. There is very little real support for the Palestinian genocide, but a strong false narrative. This article has some descriptions of the day to day struggle of Palestinians living under apartheid.
Chivalry is dead long ago
Your wish has been fulfilled! https://lemmy.world/comment/5655749
Picture in case it is deleted later: