And that’s why they were suspended so heavily, if you want to use physical intimidation to get your point across then the next step is that we bring our guns to the chamber to use physical intimidation ourselves
I assume all of a sudden the Māori would then have a problem with it
So don’t delay, fuck now, supplies are fucking out
Fuck now, if you’re still alive, six to eight fucks to arrive
And if you fuck more, there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer’s fucked
You might as well be fuckin’ on the sun
Dance like these is as intimidating as getting booed, they should quit their leadership position if they feel physically threatened by it. It’s a dance, hon, not waving gun or sword around.
A ritual dance is physical intimidation? I suppose you’d say having aggressive body language (looking angry) is physical intimidation too.
We should put all government officials on valium so they don’t accidentally get too emotionally invested in what they’re discussing, lest they accidentally physically intimidate someone with an angry face.
Obviously ministers with resting-bitch-face will have to be permanently barred from attending parliament, for the safety of their colleagues. We wouldn’t want such blatant physical intimidation on the day to day after all.
The point being, if you think a native ritual dance is the same as being physically intimidated, rather than seeing it as their culture’s way of expressing their feelings on some important matters, then you’re entirely missing the point and showing a lack of understanding of your own nation’s culture at a basic level, and probably shouldn’t be representing those same citizens at the government level.
I imagine politicians that clueless would just say “Oh my, the natives have gone feral! Look at that display of raw physical intimidation! Jeeves, fetch my musket and don’t fire till you see the whites of their eyes!”
If you feel physically intimidated by what is essentially some well known and well respected people in a debating hall being angry about the current topic of discussion and telling you they’re angry in a recognised and common cultural manner, then I can’t help you.
The haka happened last November. They haven’t been punished until now. You’d think if it was that severe they wouldn’t wait 5 months to punish them for it.
Ah, at more or less frequent time spans I end up searching the internet for all these amazing ritual performances (forgive my ignorance, I am from North Europe so don’t really know what it is exactly or what it should be called) of the Māori.
I get so captured and enchanted by them, it’s so powerful but often also beautiful and somehow extremely sorrowful or whatever emotion the display is intended to signal (or at least ends up signaling to me as a complete ignorant foreigner), I always end up wondering that had Christianity not crusaded our lands and bloodily murdered and genocided our cultures, might we have something equally powerful and captivating to preserve? It’s not a far fetch because we do have a lot of remnants and first party findings on the old Norwegian and Danish and Swedish cultures of around the Northern European Iron Age for example, that had similar sort of rituals or even just musical tastes and conventions. Our peoples neighbored those, though were distinct and entirely different on most fronts, though a lot of people today fancy conflating us with the “Vikings”. We were their looting ground for the most part and any influence from their culture on ours would’ve been likely equally bloodily brought. But I digress.
Had the southerners not crusaded and killed most of us off, snuffed out the light of our culture, forced everyone brutally to follow whatever flavor of Christ each crusade was bringing, maybe I shouldn’t feel so amazed by the amazing cultures far away. But maybe we didn’t have anything as powerful in the first place, who knows at this point…
But these shows of force and unity are always so captivating, I end up bingeing videos of them for hours on end, even if I don’t really know what they are about and what each of them mean.
I love this. It’s so close to my heart somehow, feels so close to home, yet it’s a faraway thing.
might we have something equally powerful and captivating to preserve?
…no. As in: That’s not the kind of cultural practice Christianisation wiped out or we wouldn’t be burning stuff come spring, dance around maypoles, and whatnot. The Faroese are still into singing sagas as an actual community practice. Missionaries back then weren’t trying to regiment people into factory workers, make them sit still on chairs and such.
It’s kind of a grass is greener on the other side kind of situation. There’s a good reason stuff like Heilung is captivating, but that’s because they’re modern-day shamans speaking to instincts buried by modernity, not because they’d be historical in their music or practices. Norse folk music indeed sounded pretty much like Norse folk music does today.
I get your sentiment, but I’m talking about Finnic heritage and culture, we have some stuff preserved, though a lot of it warped by Christian stuff bleeding into them, but no real knowledge of what the music around here was like. From the Scandinavians, we have even primary sources and good findings, but I am fairly certain what we had here was much different, just not preserved. A lot of the crusades were from the Scandinavians, former “Vikings”, which means we do have some amount of warped cultural traditions similar to theirs, but that is most likely a result and the outcome of hundred years of crusades, annexation, occupation and conquest. So in a sense it’s true Christianity alone didn’t result in our lost cultural traditions, it was the more powerful cousins we have from the West as well.
But I do not agree that it’s entirely just “grass is greener” kind of situation and that the influence and violence from the faiths and the peoples from the South and the West (and the East!) played no critical part in silencing whatever we used to have around here. If we take your proposal for example, that would mean that we were very alike to the Scandinavians, since those are mostly the “pagan” traditions that remain in some thinned out, distorted ways, here too. But everything, the entirely different language origins, the cultural merging more with the Siberian and Sami peoples on top of our own original foreigness among these Scandinavian neighbors, everything points to it being unlikely our customs were the same. Our religion was entirely different to those of our Western cousins. You would assume the customs, traditions, rites, the music and all, would’ve been entirely different as well, since most of them leaned into those two things: the language (as in the preservation of:) and the all-encompassing nature of faiths of that time as sort of the merged “science”, culture and religion.
But I was vague in my original comment, which probably lead to this tangent. While I’m not an academic in the histories of our culture, I have been interested in it and consuming all kinds of content regarding it (the little we have…) all my life. I feel like I am in line with the current consensus. But maybe not. Take it as you will.
If we take your proposal for example, that would mean that we were very alike to the Scandinavians, since those are mostly the “pagan” traditions that remain in some thinned out, distorted ways, here too.
I guess what I want to say overall is that you shouldn’t confuse the impact of Christianisation with the impact of being neighbours for millennia. Of course you both have Saunas, why wouldn’t they copy you, long before the crusades. There’s indubitably lots of influence in areas such as administration, but folk dances, music? Which tax collector has ever cared about that, that kind of thing travels from village to neighbouring village, the occasional travelling musician, not via state structures.
The Catholic Church definitely had influence on music as they had their stuff standardised but then not every village had a church much less a choir much less organ, nor would you want to dance to their chants. They didn’t unify Europe musically, why would they care to. What they did do is popularise polyphony.
On the flipside: Tradition is not praying to the ashes, but passing on the fire. If there’s some specifically Finnish spark that makes you produce the amount and quality of metal that you do then, by all means, do blaze on. Why go backwards, how would that be more authentic.
Actual video
That was pretty badass.
Agreed. If that had been targeted at me, I would have crapped my pants.
And that’s why they were suspended so heavily, if you want to use physical intimidation to get your point across then the next step is that we bring our guns to the chamber to use physical intimidation ourselves
I assume all of a sudden the Māori would then have a problem with it
You can fuck allll the way off.
And after you’re done fucking off, please go right ahead and keep fucking off until you reach the sun
Wait, if we could harness that level of fuck off power, we could transition to renewable energy much sooner.
So don’t delay, fuck now, supplies are fucking out
Fuck now, if you’re still alive, six to eight fucks to arrive
And if you fuck more, there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer’s fucked
You might as well be fuckin’ on the sun
So can you really!? Not helpful discourse at all.
I dunno, trying to educate shit people has gotten us nowhere either. Might as well just tell em to fuck off.
A dance is not equate to a gun, this is not some magical world where people cast spell by dancing 🤦
You’re missing the point there champ
Nah, we’re just not bigots like you.
Dance like these is as intimidating as getting booed, they should quit their leadership position if they feel physically threatened by it. It’s a dance, hon, not waving gun or sword around.
deleted by creator
A ritual dance is physical intimidation? I suppose you’d say having aggressive body language (looking angry) is physical intimidation too.
We should put all government officials on valium so they don’t accidentally get too emotionally invested in what they’re discussing, lest they accidentally physically intimidate someone with an angry face.
Obviously ministers with resting-bitch-face will have to be permanently barred from attending parliament, for the safety of their colleagues. We wouldn’t want such blatant physical intimidation on the day to day after all.
The point being, if you think a native ritual dance is the same as being physically intimidated, rather than seeing it as their culture’s way of expressing their feelings on some important matters, then you’re entirely missing the point and showing a lack of understanding of your own nation’s culture at a basic level, and probably shouldn’t be representing those same citizens at the government level.
I imagine politicians that clueless would just say “Oh my, the natives have gone feral! Look at that display of raw physical intimidation! Jeeves, fetch my musket and don’t fire till you see the whites of their eyes!”
If you feel physically intimidated by what is essentially some well known and well respected people in a debating hall being angry about the current topic of discussion and telling you they’re angry in a recognised and common cultural manner, then I can’t help you.
Yes
Yes (but just looking angry is not body language. It’s a facial expression. Screaming at someone with your arms flailing is aggressive body language)
Do you even know the history of the Haka? It’s a warrior’s dance to intimidate their foes. Modern haka can have many meanings, but that’s it’s root.
Did you see the video? The arm stuff looks like jazz hands.
Hey hey now, what’s with this intimidating post? Sounds like I may need my gun.
When the threats come from governaments you suddenly stop caring i bet
The haka happened last November. They haven’t been punished until now. You’d think if it was that severe they wouldn’t wait 5 months to punish them for it.
Ah, at more or less frequent time spans I end up searching the internet for all these amazing ritual performances (forgive my ignorance, I am from North Europe so don’t really know what it is exactly or what it should be called) of the Māori.
I get so captured and enchanted by them, it’s so powerful but often also beautiful and somehow extremely sorrowful or whatever emotion the display is intended to signal (or at least ends up signaling to me as a complete ignorant foreigner), I always end up wondering that had Christianity not crusaded our lands and bloodily murdered and genocided our cultures, might we have something equally powerful and captivating to preserve? It’s not a far fetch because we do have a lot of remnants and first party findings on the old Norwegian and Danish and Swedish cultures of around the Northern European Iron Age for example, that had similar sort of rituals or even just musical tastes and conventions. Our peoples neighbored those, though were distinct and entirely different on most fronts, though a lot of people today fancy conflating us with the “Vikings”. We were their looting ground for the most part and any influence from their culture on ours would’ve been likely equally bloodily brought. But I digress.
Had the southerners not crusaded and killed most of us off, snuffed out the light of our culture, forced everyone brutally to follow whatever flavor of Christ each crusade was bringing, maybe I shouldn’t feel so amazed by the amazing cultures far away. But maybe we didn’t have anything as powerful in the first place, who knows at this point…
But these shows of force and unity are always so captivating, I end up bingeing videos of them for hours on end, even if I don’t really know what they are about and what each of them mean.
I love this. It’s so close to my heart somehow, feels so close to home, yet it’s a faraway thing.
…no. As in: That’s not the kind of cultural practice Christianisation wiped out or we wouldn’t be burning stuff come spring, dance around maypoles, and whatnot. The Faroese are still into singing sagas as an actual community practice. Missionaries back then weren’t trying to regiment people into factory workers, make them sit still on chairs and such.
It’s kind of a grass is greener on the other side kind of situation. There’s a good reason stuff like Heilung is captivating, but that’s because they’re modern-day shamans speaking to instincts buried by modernity, not because they’d be historical in their music or practices. Norse folk music indeed sounded pretty much like Norse folk music does today.
I get your sentiment, but I’m talking about Finnic heritage and culture, we have some stuff preserved, though a lot of it warped by Christian stuff bleeding into them, but no real knowledge of what the music around here was like. From the Scandinavians, we have even primary sources and good findings, but I am fairly certain what we had here was much different, just not preserved. A lot of the crusades were from the Scandinavians, former “Vikings”, which means we do have some amount of warped cultural traditions similar to theirs, but that is most likely a result and the outcome of hundred years of crusades, annexation, occupation and conquest. So in a sense it’s true Christianity alone didn’t result in our lost cultural traditions, it was the more powerful cousins we have from the West as well.
But I do not agree that it’s entirely just “grass is greener” kind of situation and that the influence and violence from the faiths and the peoples from the South and the West (and the East!) played no critical part in silencing whatever we used to have around here. If we take your proposal for example, that would mean that we were very alike to the Scandinavians, since those are mostly the “pagan” traditions that remain in some thinned out, distorted ways, here too. But everything, the entirely different language origins, the cultural merging more with the Siberian and Sami peoples on top of our own original foreigness among these Scandinavian neighbors, everything points to it being unlikely our customs were the same. Our religion was entirely different to those of our Western cousins. You would assume the customs, traditions, rites, the music and all, would’ve been entirely different as well, since most of them leaned into those two things: the language (as in the preservation of:) and the all-encompassing nature of faiths of that time as sort of the merged “science”, culture and religion.
But I was vague in my original comment, which probably lead to this tangent. While I’m not an academic in the histories of our culture, I have been interested in it and consuming all kinds of content regarding it (the little we have…) all my life. I feel like I am in line with the current consensus. But maybe not. Take it as you will.
I guess what I want to say overall is that you shouldn’t confuse the impact of Christianisation with the impact of being neighbours for millennia. Of course you both have Saunas, why wouldn’t they copy you, long before the crusades. There’s indubitably lots of influence in areas such as administration, but folk dances, music? Which tax collector has ever cared about that, that kind of thing travels from village to neighbouring village, the occasional travelling musician, not via state structures.
The Catholic Church definitely had influence on music as they had their stuff standardised but then not every village had a church much less a choir much less organ, nor would you want to dance to their chants. They didn’t unify Europe musically, why would they care to. What they did do is popularise polyphony.
On the flipside: Tradition is not praying to the ashes, but passing on the fire. If there’s some specifically Finnish spark that makes you produce the amount and quality of metal that you do then, by all means, do blaze on. Why go backwards, how would that be more authentic.