01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100001 01101100 00111111

edit - honestly not a troll. is it the specific formatting of “em” dashes? i know for sure we use them all the time. or at least i do. but they’re just dashes to me, so…

  • QubaXR@lemmy.world
    635·
    15 days ago

    The whole em dash argument is bullshit propagated by LinkedIn lunatics with zero knowledge of AI, writing or typography.

    Different types of dashes/hyphens have different uses. People who take care of their copy and understand the nuances of punctuation use em dashes regularly. People who are in a rush, typing on phones or simply who don’t know any better, put the same en dash everywhere.

    Em dashes is one of the things that LLMs actually do right for a change. Calling text with em dashes weird, unnatural or ai generated is like making fun of someone for using proper grammar or hygiene.

    • Opinionhaver@feddit.ukEnglish
      18·
      15 days ago

      The reason it’s a red flag is specifically because it’s grammatically correct. People don’t tend to write like that online. Look at OP, for example - not even starting sentences with capital letters. That’s why it stands out when something is written too well to be human. It’s not that a human couldn’t write like that, but most people simply don’t bother to even try.

      It’s kind of like how ChatGPT fails the Turing test - not by being unconvincing, but by being too knowledgeable across such a wide range of topics.

      • Rose@slrpnk.net
        41·
        15 days ago

        People also don’t type in proper punctuation because our keyboards are stuck in the olden times and most online forum and social media platforms are same old garbage what comes to typography.

        I’m an amateur writer, I love it when word processors replace straight quotes (") with proper double quotes based on the language (“like this”, ”kuten näin”, «comme ça») and instead of minus (-) you get actual real dashes—as one does. But good luck implementing this on social media. Even blogware handles this pretty badly, the only way to get proper punctuation is to write the post in a word processor.

      • Caramel57@lemmy.world
        2·
        14 days ago

        You mean AI content copy pasted by humans.

        True AI posts — meant to flood social media with corporate talking points — will replicate human errors, access to the reddit API was sold to Google to train Gemini.

    • jqubed@lemmy.world
      8·
      15 days ago

      Depending on the phone and keyboard, I actually find it easier to use em and en dashes on mobile instead of the computer. Usually on mobile I can just hit the button for numbers/symbols and long-press the hyphen-minus, then select the appropriate alternate dash. Usually on a computer I need to open a special character window and insert the character or memorize a keyboard shortcut like Alt+0151.

      • mbtrhcs@feddit.org
        1·
        14 days ago

        At least on a Mac keyboard, the en dash is also alt+hyphen and the em dash is shift+alt+hyphen.

    • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      51·
      15 days ago

      that’s the breath of somewhat-unpredicted fresh air i was hoping to breathe

      edit- i should add that i don’t mean “predicted” in the llm sense.

    • grue@lemmy.world
      3·
      15 days ago

      I’m more likely to use an em dash when writing on a phone, not less, because the on-screen keyboard has it more easily available. It’s when I’m using a physical keyboard writing on desktop that I’m more likely to use two hyphens.

      • QubaXR@lemmy.world
        2·
        15 days ago

        It’s that an iPhone keyboard? My android does not seem to have an em dash easily accessed. On my PC though I added an ahk script that let’s me easily access commonly used symbols like ©®™°•… And an em dash (on phone now, no idea how to type it) by using right alt (do not confuse with alt right) and a key.

    • tomi000@lemmy.world
      1·
      10 days ago

      Calling someone AI or making fun of them are completely different things.

      Using proper grammar isnt bad, but may still be unusual.

    • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
      1·
      14 days ago

      Ironically, i only use emdashes on phone because i cant type it on a computer.

      On my phone i just long-press the hyphen and—

  • steeznson@lemmy.world
    23·
    15 days ago

    It’s em-dashes and semi-colons too. I use both of those on a regular basis so can empathize with OP.

    • Stovetop@lemmy.world
      9·
      15 days ago

      Same. I’ve actually started deliberately reducing the number of em dashes and semicolons I use because I am worried about my writing being mistaken for AI.

      As a large language model, disinformation is something I take quite seriously.

    • Mac@mander.xyzEnglish
      1·
      14 days ago

      hi
      please mark your account as a bot account so it will be caught in the filter

      thanks

  • throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    14·
    15 days ago

    Here’s your list of Cupcake Ingredients:

    • 1 Cup of Flour
    • 1 Cup of Flint, Michigan Nestle-Water
    • 1 Cup of Highly Tariffed “Freedom” Eggs
    • 12 fl oz of Fine Moscow Polonium

    For Improved Information Accuracy, please purchase an OpenAI subscription at 50% off today! Satisfaction Guaranteed!

  • Opinionhaver@feddit.ukEnglish
    11·
    15 days ago

    It’s not a proof that something was written by AI but it’s a red flag.

    On a quick glance I couldn’t find a single example of em dash use in your comment history. You’re using hyphens instead.

    • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      3·
      15 days ago

      thanks - and i guess that’s the point i should have emphasized. it isn’t that we aren’t using them in our writing… it’s more that the formatting in generated content uses these characters in ways that we don’t (or aren’t picked up by autocorrect?) when we write authentically

  • Yardy Sardley@lemmy.ca
    10·
    15 days ago

    Most people aren’t taking the time to type in ctrl+shift+u+2+0+1+4 when a regular minus-dash would get the point across with a single keystroke. But there is enough of a distinction that some people (like you and I) will use the proper punctuation when there is an opportunity to do so.

    What I find far more suspicious is the unicode hyphen, because no human would be able to tell the difference, and would therefore always choose to input a minus.

    • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
      7·
      15 days ago

      Not sure, if that’s a Linux thing, but I can press Alt Gr and - to get an en-dash, as well Alt Gr and Shift and - to get an em-dash.

    • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
      3·
      14 days ago

      Most people aren’t taking the time to type in ctrl+shift+u+2+0+1+4 when a regular minus-dash would get the point across with a single keystroke.

      emacs:

      • C-x 8 _ m

      • C-x 8 RET e m SPC d TAB RET

      emacs using input methods

      • C-\ T e X RET to enter TeX input method. - - - to enter an em dash when in that input method.

      • C-\ s g m l RET to enter sgml input method. & m d a s h ; to enter an em dash when in that input method.

      • C-\ r f c 1 3 4 5 RET to enter rfc1345 input method. & - M to enter an em dash when in that input method.

      For X11 or Wayland, if you have assigned a key to be Compose: Compose and then three hyphens to get an em dash.

        • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
          2·
          15 days ago

          The stuff there is a heck of a lot easier to input than memorizing numeric Unicode codepoints and using GTK’s control-shift-U thing that the parent post was suggesting.

          Emacs also can do that (C-\ u c s RET to enter ucs input method, and u 2 0 1 4 with that input method enabled), but it’s almost certainly not how you want to input oddball characters unless you’ve no other choice.

    • athairmor@lemmy.world
      2·
      15 days ago

      You don’t have type all of that. E.g. on iOS you type two dashes and it is automatically converted to an emdash.

  • irelephant [he/him]🍭@lemm.ee
    101·
    14 days ago

    Ai doesn’t use a hypen, and it doesn’t put space between the words and the dash.

    For example, If I were using a dash - I’d use it like this.

    Ai uses it—like this.

    • ...m...@ttrpg.network
      1·
      14 days ago

      …microsoft applications have an annoying habit of auto-replacing my dashes with emdashes; i don’t even know how to type an emdash…

    • Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      1·
      14 days ago

      The AI models I’ve seen DO put spaces before and after the dash—that’s how I’ve been able to suss out LLM posts in the past. I never put spaces because it’s WRONG!

    • Kissaki@feddit.orgEnglish
      0·
      14 days ago

      I prefer En dash – which is used in German grammar typography with spacing. Which seems much more readable to me.

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        13 days ago

        In English, en dashes are for ranges like between 2.5–7.5, or from Feb–July. Em dashes are to show connective thoughts, is it truly different in German or just your preference?

        • Kissaki@feddit.orgEnglish
          1·
          13 days ago

          It’s different in German.

          We use En with spacing for thoughts, interruptions, and apparently can also be used for ranges (recommended by standards, but a popular spelling source has ranges without spacing, sometimes used with reduced spacing).

  • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    8·
    15 days ago

    I love dashes – they help better convey the flow of my thinking in written form.

    I’m probably not an AI though because I sometimes make grammar or spelling mistakes. Since english isn’t my native language.

  • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
    7·
    15 days ago

    I must be an AI, then—does that mean I should charge for a subscription when I answer a question; maybe adding an extra premium fee on top of that sub each I’m also using a semi-column in the same sentence?

    I have no idea how representative these stupid remarks you mentioned are to be considered but it’s interesting to realize how their own ignorance of a certain know-how/knowledge is so, so easily becoming a proof for them that the use of said tool/knowledge by other people is making those people suspicious.

    In a working society, when faced with something one doesn’t know, aka faced with one’s own ignorance, one would see that as an opportunity to learn something new and become less ignorant. Not anymore. Following their own ‘reasoning’, it’s now being used as a proof that the other person must be some bot/AI, that they must be something non-human and suspicious. Difference is not considered an opportunity to enrich oneself anymore, it’s an anomaly.

    When dumb starts defining what’s ‘normal’—and what’s human—one better start worrying, imho.

    Btw, using the ‘Azerty (French alt)’ keyboard layout on Linux, this poor em-dash is just a Shift+AltGr+’ away—why wouldn’t I want to use it?

    Legal disclaimer: this comment was generated by Libb, the first French English-speaking AI that’s as human-looking as anything French can be. It was trained on baguettes and wine—please, say ‘cheese’ in the next 20 seconds, if you don’t want for Libb to give you a real French kiss.

      • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
        3·
        15 days ago

        Bowing in front of the one-person cheering crowd.

        I just realized, you did not say ‘cheese’? Come closer ;)

          • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
            4·
            15 days ago

            um… cheese?

            Wait? What? You were not supposed to say… Well, ok. Fine. Doesn’t matter. I will have another glass of wine instead.

            why do i feel like you wear masks in private?

            I don’t know (and I don’t know probably because I don’t wear one and neither do I wear a mask in public btw, save when I have a cold) but I would like to know.

            • toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
              1·
              15 days ago

              gotta say i’m a bit deflated. you built up so much weirdo energy that i expected a payoff. we were on the verge of putting the lotion in the basket. we could have been so much more

              • Libb@jlai.luEnglish
                3·
                15 days ago

                gotta say i’m a bit deflated. you built up so much weirdo energy that i expected a payoff. we were on the verge of putting the lotion in the basket. we could have been so much more

                All things must come to an end, even the most beautiful stories. Plus, to be 100% honest with you, I just met that cute Dutch cheese lover…

                gotta say i’m a bit deflated. you built up so much weirdo energy

                I will take that as a compliment ;)

  • puppinstuff@lemmy.caEnglish
    7·
    15 days ago

    I use em and en dashes according to traditional grammar rules. Been that way for years. It just looks and reads nicer. AI won’t take that from me.

  • AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.worldEnglish
    71·
    15 days ago

    Any “people” talking about simple ways to detect AI are actually AI bots trying to throw us off.

  • Bruncvik@lemmy.world
    5·
    15 days ago

    I also use em dashes. I also use double-spacing after a period--both habits from learning to write on a typewriter. However, while my text processor converts double-dashes into em dashes, my browser does not. So, when I see em dashes in a forum post, I naturally become suspicious. It is very rare for me to write a post in a text editor and then copy/paste it into a text area, and I assume this to be true with others as well.

    • cally [he/they]@pawb.socialEnglish
      4·
      14 days ago

      i usually use (compose key + --. (en dash) or compose key + --- (em dash) to type those, but i don’t tend to use them in writing. instead, i use en dashes for number ranges (e.g.: 3–4, 10–20) to avoid it being confused with subtraction.