- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
The Trump administration is preparing to cancel a large swath of federal funding for California, an effort that could begin as soon as Friday, according to multiple sources.
Agencies are being told to start identifying grants the administration can withhold from California. Sources said the administration is specifically considering a full termination of federal grant funding for the University of California and California State University systems.
Singling out one state for massive cuts would be an unusual move, but Donald Trump has long made Democratic-led California a target.
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the only people who want California to secede are tech freaks that want to establish a monarchy and see this as an opportunity to do that
If you build the dome in silicone valley, John Galt will appear beneath it and bless the Mars sperm ark.
California should cancel state funding for the federal government.
if state funding is being canceled, that state should leave the union. why be apart of the united states government if trump is dismantling and destroying the united states government.
The American thing to do is fight for America.
The people who want California to just leave are the ones who want to dismantle the country.
I don’t want what’s best for America. I want what’s best for California. It’s in a bad relationship and is always the provider and the victim.
Without liberty and justice for all, there can BE no one nation indivisible.
I think it maybe time to change the dynamic of the USA. Maybe instead of 2 levels, maybe three. Federal, regional, and state. Where the federal hands over some powers to the regional government. I am not sure how that could happen, but it might be a good direction.
I personally think that there should be three presidents, each overseeing a major chunk of America - West, Center, and East. This would help divide up the power of the executive branch, as the Judicial and Congressional branches would remain a global aspect of the nation. Unitary executive theory would be dead, since there can be no unitary, IMO.
Plus, we can have three separate elections - someone who ran to be elected in Centre America can’t run for the other two regions. This would allow us to have a lot more candidates, all of them quite focused on what they offer the region they decided to run for. Right now, a president has to appeal to ALL of America, which means not many people will actually be happy.
I’m Californian. The federal government, for my entire life, has just taken and taken and taken from me. I have received nothing in return. I don’t need your shitty union of thugs and mouth breathers, and I don’t need your bullshit military colonizing waste of time and money.
Well you probably don’t realize the things the federal government does give cali. Interstate highways are one. Coast guard. Bridges. And clearly funding to the universities. Now the balance is lopsided, in that cali gives more back. But that doesn’t mean cali would have given you those same things.
That said… determining if CA would be better with our without the feds is a complicated question. For one, they would probably need to fund thier own military, as they would be a ripe target given thier economic prosperity.We pay more into those federal programs than they spend back on us. If we just kept the taxes locally, while maintaining funding for all those programs, we would come out ahead by a factor of nearly 2:1.
As for military spending, there is a lot of savings to be had by not fighting endless bullshit Christian jihads.
Correct. But what you may have implied and got wrong is that this is somehow a bad idea. America is long overdue for a federal collapse. This cultural infighting is unsustainable.
As a new Yorker I am sick of having my tax dollars go to subsidize hicks in the deep south and Midwest that ultimately vote against my rights. I am more than happy to see the bridges that unite us burn because the concept of “unity” in a melting pot is a ticking time bomb, as it always has been.
The people who want California to just leave are the ones who want to dismantle the country.
This Canadian is fine with it at this point. Fuck the USA. We’ve been your friend forever and you shit on us.
Burn baby burn.
I wouldn’t really want to be sharing the largest land border in the world with the size of tempest brewing up in the US right now, should it ever boil over. Seems like that might be a bit of a nightmare to keep contained.
The strategy isn’t to keep it contained.
… Wait so you want the war spilling over into canada? Why?
I hope this convinces Californians to sign the CalExit petition, so that California can start researching the option to secede. The way things are looking, the dissolution of the union seems likely. It would be better if California and the other blue states got prepared for that.
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Considering that Trump has killed all sorts of diplomatic relationships, I think it would be better for California and the other blue states to form their own arrangements with other powers, alongside internal ones.
Trump killed NOAA. The weather service that helped all of the states to prepare their crops and disaster management, is now torn to pieces. Our schools are being barred from having students from abroad, which weakens America’s abilities to have the best and brightest to join our nation. Tariffs are destroying our supply chains. The courts have become delegitimized, used to entrap people who dared to believe in the justice of law. The wall of flesh in Panama is failing.
…I had plenty of think, thank you very much.
Our enemies have burrowed inside our flesh. If we don’t remove them, we are truly screwed.
To be fair I did say Trump was Americas brexit. So I take it back, you’re right. This is scary times for the USA, and the rest of the world will suffer too.
Honestly, it is a situation that has no clear answer. It is very frustrating!
Have a think how brake up of Yugoslavia went for Slovenia (the richest YU republic).
More like Indyref.
Not sure what that is? Scotland leaving the union?
Thanks. Just wasn’t sure.
It makes me laugh that the same Brexit morons are against that.
Indyref was broadly supported by the left but brexit was a right wing project. And indyref was pro-EU, which was reflected a few years later when the same voters who wanted to leave UK voted remain in EU.
The concept of leaving a union of nations has no inherent other political implications.
For me it all comes down to whether the Scots can get themselves in to the EU or not. Casting yourself adrift, Brexit style, is foolish.
How are the situations similar? Because of the name?
Leaving your nearest trading partner doesn’t seem like a good thing.
California’s nearest trading partner is China.
But is that organised through a USA trade deal or not?
With the current Trump tariffs the existing US trade deal is a dysfunction at best.
Despite it. Our governor actually shows up to trade negotiations and sticks to the agreed terms.
anti-science funding. the threat to fascists states are usually intellectual and science so they are often the first to be persecuted before minorities are. most of the people in the industries are smart enough to leave the country before sht hits the fan.
If the federal government isn’t going to give California back the federal taxes paid by its citizens then it should stop paying federal taxes.
I’m going to be fucking shook if Gavin actually does it. So far, the only people I’ve seen him meaningfully stand up to are bay area NIMBYs and homeless people.
I don’t see how he could since individuals pay income tax directly to the federal government during tax season. It would take all of them working in unison to do it. Unless there’s some other tax payment directly from CA state that I don’t know about.
Taco Don doesn’t understand how anything works.
Is that functionally just seceeding?
I have NO clue what the legal ramifications are here. If it’s not, that would seem like a next step.
Please do, California. I want to visit again and I’m not looking to get sent to El Salvador on arrival lol
I wonder how one could do this.
The state of California could implement say, an 80% state income tax. This would be deductable from federal tax per IRS tax code. The state could then create an instant tax credit to credit back a gross 69% income, leaving 11% to the state to match their current tax rate.
The Feds would only get tax on 20% of wages, unlike the 89% they do now
It would only delay things. When you get a state tax refund, the next year it’s counted as federal wages.
Taxes are collected through the private for-profit banking system in a manner that’s completely disjointed from the state of residency. Payroll taxes are incredibly efficient, with north of a 98% collections rate, for this reason. The private banks need the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve needs the US Treasury. So when the US Treasury says it’s taking a vig on your employer’s deposit at Bank of America or Citigroup or even your local Credit Union, compliance is instant and unquestioning.
Going Unbanked is one way to get around this. But without an employer who is operating on the same wavelength and willing to play ball, unbanking yourself is difficult and expensive and fraught with criminal liabilities.
So, the short answer is that there’s no (practical) way for a State Government to intervene on Federal income tax collection. Not when all the transactions are taking place in a server farm hosted in a NYC boiler room, anyway.
There are other comments that already give practical ways to accomplish what you say is impossible.
Link?
Simply don’t do the thing.
Individuals don’t typically pay taxes themselves. They get deducted from paychecks. Employers do this before we even get paid. So companies would need to support this. But then you have some like my employer who has hundreds of people in California but is based in another state. How is that going to work? This just isn’t as easy as residents just deciding not to.
Okay. I didnt know this. I’ve never actually paid taxes myself.
But it’s also possible other states get on board, and i know domestic industries like cannabis that dont do business with the maij body of the empire play it pretty fast abd loose with taxes.
its a good thing i stopped paying federal taxes.
You will lose against the IRS. The only way this works is if everyone acts together. You cannot beat Uncle Sam alone.
First pretty dumb to say this publicly if true… But second: you do realize that the rules about paying taxes literally, only apply to people like you and I? They 100% will continue to go after low hanging fruit, and that means people who can’t afford a team of attorneys on retainer.
Sounds like California should cancel the taxes it would normally send to the fed.
All the blue states should do this. Shake off the conservative parasites.
That would break the bank. California is 4th largest economy in the world, after the U.S., China, and Germany. It would probably cause Trump to declare martial law and send troops to California.
Sign me up for Cali’s defense. Better to fight Trump and his kind, than to live with them for the rest of my life.
I mean, good luck? CA is also obscenely well defended, since most of its modern wealth came from it being considered a battleground vs Japan and Russia, so there’s loads of bases.
Most likely, this will just yet again be a defeat in court. That dude is just throwing shit against the wall and hoping some of it will stick.
Why are people still convinced that the courts have any meaningful power anymore? The orangeboi regime has already flagrantly ignored a ton of court rulings; they’ll continue to ignore more court rulings. They don’t care. It’s not “who’s gonna let me”; it’s “who’s gonna stop me”. Orangeboi et al have inserted their own loyalist flunkies into the leadership of all the organizations that can effectively function as the enforcement of court decisions. There are no guardrails anymore. “Checks and balances” is and always was a gentlemen’s agreement, and it’s no longer being honored.
That and the geography is an absolute mf for logistics. There’s like three good roads that cross the Sierra Nevada.
so there’s loads of bases
Staffed with federal employees. Fort Hunter isn’t going to protect Californians from the Pentagon. It is the Pentagon.
Also, and this is a much bigger deal, Gavin Newsome is a cowardly little parasite. He’s not going to side with Californians on this. He’s going to grovel on his belly and lick Trump’s shoes hoping he can convince The Donald to relent.
Most likely, this will just yet again be a defeat in court.
So long as DOGE runs the US Treasury, it hardly matters. If Trump starts cancelling payments and reversing transactions at a California scale, he’ll drag the whole country into recession overnight. Courts can issue orders, but only the Treasury has the power to authorize payments.
You’re assuming Trump wouldn’t also fuck over troops stationed here in California. Remember military personnel are reliant on local infrastructure in a lot of areas and if Trump starts fucking with it again the military may be caught in the crossfire.
I’m assuming the comment “declaring martial law” would require nat guard (natives) and stationed troops (federal) to attempt to impose order. Not sure what that has to do with local infra, but the last time they tried that (LA Riots) it didn’t go great. Doing it for a strictly political reason would likely result in some very hard decisions for a lot of nat guard and some federal career military. The Nat Guard and federales couldn’t even restore order in South Central when most of the state was in their corner, it’d be madness to think they could handle the whole state when it was over a pissing match.
California gets roughly $162.9 billion from the fed. California pays roughly $692 billion to the fed in taxes.
It’d be pretty easy to see them choosing to just withhold whatever Trump decided to deny them and say “fine, then we’ll just make up the offset, suck it”, and then things would get interesting indeed.
I thought ya meant that because of how militarized the state was it’d be hard for the state to respond. I was just stating you could cut water and electricity as a response to that.
But yeah you are right on the fact the response would at best be a mess, honestly if they were told to occupy the state they’d probably just sit around getting heat stroke and doing nothing.
(cue cut scene of Twenty-nine Palms) :D I think you’re right
That entire section of the hi desert may as well be summarized as “do nothing get heat stroke”.
Yeah but how the fuck would he pay the troops without, you know, California’s money?
I maintain the quickest way for military and LEOs to drop support for Trump is realizing they aren’t gonna get paid or that their money has become essentially worthless. Either scenario will pit them against him. If they can’t feed their families they will turn, considering it’s an all volunteer military. He would have to instate a harsh draft first to avoid that.
I’d love to sign up but I have really bad bone spurs…
realizing they aren’t gonna get paid or that their money has become essentially worthless.
If California’s taxes suddenly evaporated, it would create a massive budget deficit that would have to be plugged by printing money, would debase the currency and likely cause hyperinflation.
Which would render the US dollar essentially worthless, resulting in soldiers and LEOs essentially being “unpaid” and no longer willing to support Trump.
Ya’ll gotta understand that california doesn’t just hand over big bags of money once a year, the mechanisms of payment are numerous and vastly complex, often overseen directly by the IRS in concert with interstate banking groups which california has no authority over. Add to that, the federal budget is a budget. The feds already have payroll secured for the forseeable future, certainly long enough to roll in and arrest Newsom (et. al.) for sedition. The conservative hate machine has, as well, been painting “Commiefornia” as the enemy for years. Troops have been fantasizing about rolling tanks down sunset boulevard and pacifying those uppity libs for decades now, it’s not like that sentiment can’t or won’t be exploited by the trump admin.
There’s just no feasible scenario in which this would end well for california.
Maybe, maybe not. What you have to consider is that when you are in the military, the federal government owns you like livestock. They feed you, house you, and can send you to your death. You don’t necessarily need money, especially in the short term. Moreover, there are rules that prevent active duty military from being ejected from housing. You might not be happy about dollar devaluation, but the blame will be focused on the “bad” people of California and you’re there to make it right. It would take a lot for the U.S. military machine to grind to a halt, and a lot of damage can be done while it is happening.
Another common idea is that the good folks in the military aren’t going to shoot civilians, and would rebel if ordered to. While there might be some isolated rebellion, most people in the military are conditioned to follow orders, and will do so, even if such orders are illegal. People will do what they have to to keep the pressure off themselves.
I assure you, you can be both active duty and broke shitless. Its heavily subsidized food, lodging, and bare necessities; and the current government is trying to slash even those benefits. There’s also only so long you can keep people happy without disposable income.
You don’t necessarily need money, especially in the short term.
If you have kids, you do. Plenty of people in the military with spouses and children.
the trick is to have them shoot their kids especially if they live in california with them then they wont feel bad for not getting paid to shoot their kids
If you subtract California from the USA is it still #1?
Yes. The U.S. GDP is around $30 trillion. China is around $19 trillion. California is around $4 trillion.
Let’s get it over with.
To do what?
California can just stop aiding the IRS in collecting tax.
Californexit
Califexit. Or Cali Fecks Off depending where n your point of view.
Remember, the state doesn’t pay taxes, individual citizens do by filling out their annual federal income taxes.
So, if “California” were to stop giving money to the federal government, the governor would basically need to convince individual citizens not to file their 1040.
And all of those people would have to clinch their assholes and hope Trump didn’t sick the IRS on them.
For private businesses sure, but Newsom can simply set up an escrow account and direct all state government entities to send their federal withholding to the new account instead.
California imposes a new law that companies operating in Cali cannot automatically collect federal income tax from Californian citizens.
Cali raises the state tax rate to match the current federal rate (could probably go lower actually, since Cali is subsidizing most of the red states).
Boom, no more taxes paid to the Fed.
Or… Cali’s creates a law where their own tax department collects the federal tax and pays it for their citizens.
If we had less of a coward in sacramento, id say they could back us.
If Californians (Or everyone) just filed for extensions en masse, that alone would fuck shit up and would be totally legal.
If Californians (Or everyone) just filed for extensions en masse
Most people don’t owe the IRS money. They’re owed a rebate. How would filing for an extension benefit someone who is expecting a $2000 check back from the IRS for excess paid?
If you’re planning to do any sort of tax strike, step one is zeroing your withholdings.
Based on my research, this is what I’m seeing as well, an important first step.
If it really starts affecting the economy, expect the ability to set your withholdings to vanish.
A little, but not that much. The federal government already has most of the money because of tax withholding from employers. When you file taxes as an employee you’re just balancing what’s leftover and playing “did I over or under pay even though you already know that.” It would require the state preventing employers from withholding or sending money to the IRS on behalf of their employees, and I doubt companies would just unilaterally stop doing that.
In fact it might help the federal government cause people tend to be owed more refunds than unpaid tax.
Yeah that was my thinking as well, the idea that people stop filing their taxes doesn’t do much when the system to get the money from your paycheck to the government mostly doesn’t involve you
They can stop taking federal taxes out of state employee pay
But then each of those people get walloped with a big ass 1040 payment from the feds at the end of the year. And they feds can chose to make an “example” of random people who don’t pay up.
Presumably California would declare that they wouldn’t comply with IRS investigations but those people would be vulnerable if they travel or have assets outside California
Also employers would need to all simultaneously stop withholding taxes from employee paychecks for federal taxes, since you can’t just update your W-2 to a $0 withholding without claiming dependents, multiple other jobs, etc. You don’t “choose” your withholding, you just check the boxes that calculates the minimum withholding.
That’s the problem California doesn’t send taxes to the Federal government. People and businesses pay directly to the government. There’s no mechanism to even stop it on a state level if a governor wanted to.
ban local/state agencies from assisting the IRS with tax enforcement
They don’t do that now. The IRS contacts the bank, that’s licensed as a bank by the federal government, and tells them to close your account. Usually the first step is to freeze your assets, then they start taking things. The banks aren’t going to argue, they’re not going to give up their entire business just to protect you, or a single state. Even if it is California.
That is an oversimplification. While the IRS can issue levies to federally regulated banks, it usually requires a formal legal process such as a tax lien or a court order. Banks do not comply automatically without proper documentation. State laws can influence how quickly or effectively the IRS operates, especially if the state limits data sharing, delays cooperation, or questions jurisdiction. Not all banks are federally chartered. Some are licensed at the state level and may face different legal pressures. California cannot stop the IRS entirely, but it can slow down enforcement, create legal friction, and raise the political stakes.
Not counting on the rules applying any longer.
No taxation without representation.
How could California do that when taxes are paid directly by the taxee to the IRS?
Start cutting power, water, and gas to federal offices and facilities, let’s see if they can do jack shit when it’s 90 degrees outside and 110 inside. Mind you that is just me thinking reconciliation is stupid and shouldn’t be considered as a possibility.
That’s what Trump wants, to burn it all down.
West coast has enough intelligence and money to navigate without the federal govt.
That’s not the point. By cutting off water electricity etc you are helping Trump dismantle the federal government. You know that Trump guy that said “we want federal employees to hate going into work” well congratulations you just helped him big time.
Change your withholding, then only pay state tax.
ban local/state agencies from assisting the IRS with tax enforcement
I was wondering about this. The new BBB or whatever increases SALT to 40k. I live in Jersey. I would have no problem with NJ just taxing me 40k outright. You just pay 40k to live in NJ. And then I just deduct that 40k from my federal tax burden, bringing it down below 0. What’s stopping states from doing this?
The irs wouldn’t recognize the deduction and you would still owe the entire amount to the federal government.
I’m curious why you say this, and I’m not trying to be argumentative. I pay 11k for property taxes, and so with this I get to deduct that 11k from my federal taxes. And if you mean to say that the IRS and the Feds would be like hey, you can’t do that, yeah, you’re probably right, and I agree. I’m just curious if you had some other rationale for the suggestion. I am no tax expert.
It would be considered tax evasion. Deductions not authorized by federal statute, have no affect on federal tax laws. Start following your own rules, and they will come knocking on your door. Of course with staffing cuts, it could be years from now when they show up.
SALT is authorized.
Yeah, I guess I’m still a little confused. You’re allowed to deduct State and Local taxes on your federal return. Now it’s 10k, the BBB raises it to 40k. I’m just saying states should levy a tax to maximize the SALT deduction for everyone, because you’re allowed to do it. But it’s not going to happen, just me being silly.
I was misunderstanding a bit myself. I was thinking you meant by yourself. As a state, California could possibly increase property taxes to maximize everyone’s salt deduction. As more of a long term solution it might even be an idea depending on California constitutional law. More likely though, they would just have to fight the illegal impoundment in the court. While it would likely take months to get done, changing tax law the the affects of that would take years.
That is exactly what should happen.
I don’t know all the ins and outs of this, but somehow I doubt that Trump has as much financial leverage against the fourth largest economy in the world as he apparently thinks he does.
I doubt it’s him who thinks he does. Remember, Putin is calling the shots, and his goal is to destabilize and destroy the US.
Add NY, MA, AND NJ and you have a block that is on quite solid ground.
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Since Confederate States of America have gained a negative connotation and to avoid confusion, you could proclaim Libertarian States of America, I know most people here are not libertarian, but still fucking closer to that than typical trumpists, and they are going to steal the word otherwise. Said as a libertarian and a citizen of Russia, which means I’ll enjoy watching the events from afar quite a lot, might even remember to make popcorn.
Since Confederate States of America have gained a negative connotation
No they did that to themselves by caring only about preserving slavery
That’s what I meant. I was joking, there’s such a thing - joke
So Americans need to switch it off and on again. Gather up new founding fathers and mothers, write up a new constitution and declaration of independence - write up documents for a new federation between states…
Create a back up United States. Declare the old one null and void. Stop interacting with the old one. Start interacting with the new one.
Call all this something benign sounding. Try not to go to war about it. But yeah, you all need to switch this shit off and on again.
I agree. Time for a good old constitutional convention.
Except that’s exactly what the Heritage Foundation has been wanting for decades so they can turn the US into an official Christofascist nation.
I can’t wait to be the United Coca-Cola States of Unilever America.
Yup, by excluding the south east (Texas to Florida) they could easily reboot it in a much more progressive manner.
Texas and Florida? You mean North Mexico and Cuba Libre?
Woah woah woah. Texas seceded from Mexico to preserve slavery until they joined the US so they could secede to preserve slavery. And a cuba libre is delicious, not nearly as watered down (underwater) as Florida is.
The University of California is the largest employer in the state.
In most other states, Walmart is the biggest employer.
Talk about giving higher education the middle finger!
Is it because they are a hospital network like the University of Pittsburgh? (UPMC is the largest in PA)
It says a lot, by itself.
Another day another senile ramble
He’s still mad that Schwarzenegger took over The Celebrity Apprentice
Holy shit. This would be so on brand for Trump that it’s probably the main reason.
Is California secession still a thing?
There’s an ongoing political effort to get it on the ballot called “CalExit”
Sounds like is sure could be. Also sounds like the basis for a court case.
I’m pretty sure Texas is the only “legal” state allowed to secede, but I’m not a lawyer and my info may be woefully out of date
The US would never allow that much freedom. It has to ensure everyone is locked down.
No state is allowed to. Read the 14th amendment.
And there is an emoluments clause. And dozens of others already violated.
That’s irrelevant to whether or not a state has an established legal right to do a thing.
When it gets to the level of a component piece of a country leaving said country, it doesn’t really matter what the law is. The South isn’t part of the US because it was decided that secession was illegal, they’re there because they got their ass beaten.
The colonies weren’t “allowed” to leave England either, yet here we are.
Would it cause a civil war? Yea. Would California win? Of course not.
I’m not convinced it would lead to civil war. It could, but it still takes a lot of manufacturing consent for us to go to war with random brown countries. It’d be no easy task to convince the US population and military we needed to start dropping bombs on Hollywood. Soldiers would desert and other states would think about joining.
I don’t think it would be at least that simple… Would it be bloody and awful most likely but California holds a lot of military how many would stay loyal is dependent but I could also see some other world power interfering maybe… For better trade or special treatment.
No, Texas (nor any other state) can not secede from the Union.
https://www.sll.texas.gov/faqs/can-texas-secede
Can Texas secede? I heard it is one of the only states that can secede from the United States.
It is a common misunderstanding that Texas has the right to leave the United States. The Texas State Library and Archives Commission (TSLAC) addresses this on their page about Texas’s annexation:
It is said of Texas (and, occasionally, Vermont) that it received a letter or document of permission to withdraw from the Federal Union if it so chose. […] In fact, Texas received no special terms in its admission to the Union. Once Texas had agreed to join the Union, she never had the legal option of leaving, either before or after the Civil War.
I stand corrected
Texas can split itself up into 5 states, but not secede.
No taxation without representation.
Oh they still get representation, they just get told no.
