It seems to be a pitfall of the thinking “it can’t happen here.”
What? Everybody thought fascism would come from the inside in the US. Even if you slept through the first Trump term this has been a thing since the 1930s. Surely during the Cold War, and definitely for everybody outside the US itself, but… I mean, were you alive during the whole “war on terror” nonsense?
Had the post-Reagan, post 9-11 US fascists successfully brainwashed even left of centre normies into thinking that was not the case? Were Americans that oblivious?
Sure, Mr or Ms “I knew it all along”. But even most respected analysts thought the first Trump term was “fascist-adjacent”. Even though Slavoj Zizek was correct that voting outsiders is the correct thing to do to shake up the corrupt status quo, he was wrong to say that Trump isn’t fascist until the second term. Hindsight is 20/20.
I mean… yeah, but also I’m very well on the record disagreeing with that and calling Trump a fascist since day one. Not that I expect you dig through my online presence to corroborate it.
I’m not American. The presence of fascists in US politics has been a commonly accepted truth in anybody anywhere left of demochristians for half a century. This isn’t “hindsigh”, it’s “I recommend always reading what people say about your country in foreign newspapers”.
And for the record, we got fascists, too. We’re just less shy about calling them that, maybe? Certainly don’t have any delusions about ourselves in terms of being inoculated from fascism at a fundamental level. The idea that Americans would have survived Bush, let alone the overtly fascist Trump without noticing or acknowledging it seems outright bizarre to me, but there you go.
I mean, Stephen Miller isn’t even shy about it. Even if you are the kind of European that would argue Berlusconi wasn’t a fascist and could maaaaaybe entertain Trump is on that same level of “just horny criminal idiot” you surely would have had zero questions after hearing five minutes of Dracula Hitler back in 2016.
m not American. The presence of fascists in US politics has been a commonly accepted truth in anybody anywhere left of demochristians for half a century.
I am an American and idk where this idea comes from because I’ve been noticing a decline at least since high school political science forced me to pay attention for the first time. It’s been hard not to notice the slope getting steeper every day.
the democratic process had been breaking down since the beginning of the cold war, just because the exact moment wasnt known doesnt mean it wasnt inevitable.
It is possible to do an internet search for a date range. Looking at 2016, there were many articles regarding fascism and Trump. Here is just one:
It is true that many people were uncertain if Trump was a full on fascist, or if he was thwarted by a lack of reading. Which sounds like a lie. I am cherry picking this quote from the article, the article itself is not particularly cherry picked.
Do you think that Trump is consciously using fascist tropes, or do you think that he’s just sort of stumbled into this?
I doubt it’s conscious. I don’t think he’s a bookish man. I’m sure he’s never read a book about Hitler or Mussolini.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/02/is-donald-trump-a-fascist-an-expert-on-fascism-weighs-in.htmlEdit: editing for clarity.
Honestly, even at the time that entire “benefit of the doubt” garbage read like some combination of active collaboration and outright denial. It’s nuts that Trump rode it to a second term, honestly. As late as the week of the election people were having haughty conversations about the lack of ties between Project 2025 and the Trump campaign and those morons still elected them again because Harris was too weak on Israel or whatever.
I mean, I’d normally not assume an entire culture is incapable of parsing reality, but there are still supposed American leftists going “they’re both the same” on this site right now.
Which reminds me I’m trying to cut off American politics from my media menu as much as possible, so maybe it’s time to mute this stuff and move on with my day, because man, what a group of weirdos.
Your media has been covering up for this descent into fascism my entire lifetime and I’m in my 30s. They literally, jingoistically called for the US to invade foreign countries, fear-mongered for views, all while dragging my country into those wars lest we end up like “freedom fries” France. I guess if you grew up in the Obama era, there would have seemed like a brief respite from the descent into fascism, but it was all political spin and no substance. Sitting where I am, the Democrats are a right-leaning party. THAT’S your “left wing” so anything further right is obviously going to be fascist in a country so nationalistic.
Trump LITERALLY incited an insurrection during his first term. Any “respected analyst” that wouldn’t call him a fascist just had too much faith in your already very broken institutions.
Mx is the gender neutral btw.
Nobody thought? Carl Sagan did. Many did.
Lol, many, many people knew that fascism would come from within and warned as such. Coincidentally, Sinclair Lewis wrote a book titled “It Can’t Happen Here” in 1935 about how a fascist would come to power in America. It’s been a while since I read it, but I recall it having some eerily similar parallels to Trump’s rise to power.
Came to say this. I recall especially the books private, paramilitary “marching clubs” being turned into law enforcement, which feels a lot like how the Proud Boys and 3% have fallen out of the media at the same time as ICE has co-opted their tactics.
“We’ll have fascism in [America], but we’ll call it anti-fascism” - Huey Long
The whole of US political commentary 1935-1939 feels very relevant today.
Maybe we should use a similar playbook but inversely to defeat fascism from within.
I haven’t read it but I will, eventually. But I must ask, I wonder though if George Lucas read the book and drew inspiration from it? Even some of the themes on how the republic fell and rise of the empire has kinda happened in real life. The toxic masculinity and alienation has real life parallel contributing to the decline of democracy, aside from the more obvious such as institutional corruption, wealth inequality and complacency. I also think Lucas was inspired from Hannah Arendt’s book, Origins of Totalitarianism, where she concluded that loneliness is precursor to totalitarianism. Anakin’s downfall is because he is lonely and alienated, and essentially told to “suck it up”. There is parallel to his experience and those in real life who have turned to the far right/dark side.
No offense, but Americans were (or still are) literally the only ones oblivious to this. Fascism in the USA did not start with Trump’s second term. It did not start with his first term either. This has been progressing practically ever since the declaration of independence.
Most at least slightly educated people saw this clearly decades ago. Most weren’t saying anything, because we had bigger problems.
The main issues here consist of:
- lack of an at least semi-functional education system
- ubiquitous propaganda
Nothing about the current state of the USA is surprising whatsoever to most people who weren’t born there. Americans have been exploited and manipulated for generations, and this is the effect. As pointed out by other commenters, there are countless books, essays and works of fiction discussing this phenomenon.
“when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross” - Sinclair Lewis
Fricken spot on. I say this quote a lot when I see what’s happening.
Especially because there’s a gun store near me and their logo is the American flag hanging on the cross. Not joking.
It always comes from within. Those who thought it is an external thread kinda had their head in the sand.
I did have an argument in my head that it always comes from within, although that’s not exactly the case with countries invaded by fascists before and their governments installed with puppet fascist counterparts.
So, you’re telling me 'Murica, the place known for:
- putting money above EVERYTHING
- exploiting half of the world’s countries
- supporting coups and bloody dictatorships
- invading countries using shitty excuses when the real reason is money
- never hunting down its own extremist “good” terrorists like the kkk
- school shootings
- exporting their propaganda to all aligned countries
- being super xenophobic
- being a fucking chicken because “muh freeze peach!” when it comes to glorification of nazi ideals
Wasn’t expecting fascism to grow from within???
…… you quote “it can’t happen here” without realizing that the phrase itself is satirical and that so so many people already saw the trajectory ages before now and that nationalistic propaganda is abundant in mass media. It’s no shock to anyone who has ever tried paying attention or thinking critically about the implications of common ideologies.
As a German, on the contrary, it was blindingly obvious. Starting with your massive(ly overblown) patriotism. No insult intended.
Yeah, as an Australian, when I learnt as a teen that they do the “pledge of allegiance” everyday in school, I kind of wondered how easy it would be to hijack that into something evil.
… Umm anyone with a lick of common sense was aware that fascism coming from the inside is the real threat. In very instance where fascism has taken over a country that is where it has come from.
like when Nazis took over France
…about 1/3 of France, the rest of it was run by the Vichy Government.
Lol.
LMAO, even.
This particular downslope has been around for 20+ years, and it’s been arguably more like 50 years.
Hell, the only reason we have the small amount of gun control we do is because Regan was afraid of black people owning guns.
Fascism has been festering for a long time, most people only notice now because it’s finally affecting them.
People def thought
From the 90’s on things felt like they were getting better for a few years. Then things started going south.
This whole time the Democrats and the Republicans have had their endless political battles while ratcheting our rights away. We need the opposite.
Simple example, I want the right to immunization. If I think injecting myself with bleach is a great idea, I should be able to do that. But that’s stupid so we need a CDC to tell us that explicitly and to prevent other stupid formulations from being legal. MRNA vaccines and other vaccines work for example. So one minor thing could be not denying vaccines. Another minor thing is to help the development of vaccines. One way is by not de-funding projects working on vaccines. Another is by not de-funding the education system that creates teachers, professors, doctors, scientists and engineers.
I guess you didn’t watch “Iron Sky”
Good movie.
I’d like to point out that the timing in the prediction was off by… one presidency? 8 years? Pretty prophetic if you ask me…
