It’s not a matter of worse, on paper or otherwise. Decades of negative news about her; so, public sentiment was completely tainted and perceived her that way. She was and is completely up on things having to do with this country and worldly things. Trump should have been disqualified, not officially, but given the demonstration to the opposite. I think you mentioned it in your original comment, people don’t pay attention. They even seem to get angry when I fill them in, too. We’re totally fucked.
Besides, when you offer to lower taxes or claim a good economy, no amount of cruelty is off the table (e.g. kids in cages).
She lost for a reason. Regardless of agreement with her policies or her less evil status she was politically unviable. Trump had the “outsider” angle that meant people could project their own views on him. Hillary had baggage. And wasn’t even very progressive
“She lost for a reason” does not mean she would have been a worse president than Trump. Do you also think Gore would have been a worse president than Bush or a second Carter term would have been worse than Reagan’s first term?
Honestly there would be very little difference in the state of the world today had Hillary won. The protests in occupied Palestine may have not kicked off so hard if Hillary won and didn’t move the embassy. We definitely wouldn’t have free healthcare or bullet trains or even student debt relief had she won. It would be like right now with bidensupporting continuing to support genocidal regimes around the worldi in order to maintain western hegemony.
See what I said below. Or just answer this one last question I asked below: Do you think she would have appointed far-right Supreme Court justices that would end Roe v. Wade and done other massive damage since the three Trump appointed were confirmed?
far right no, centrist right leaning? absolutely. democrats campaigned for republicans in texas and Minnesota because they were progressive left, not toe the line corporate democrats. why didn’t obama codify roe as law when he had the change for years? because it’s a cash cow. “vote for us to save abortion rights!” now roe is overturned, “vote for us to fight for ablution rights!” they could havw solved that issue.
So better than Trump? Wouldn’t have overturned Roe? Sounds like a better choice then. Or do you think abortion rights aren’t incredibly important?
Also, when did Obama have the majority of pro-choice votes in congress to codify it? In the six months when they had a majority? Joe Donnelly was in the senate, which was in a razor thing margin, and he was pro-life. As were a couple of other Democrats at the time. The idea that he could have codified Roe is nonsense.
Are you suggesting that they shouldn’t campaign on saving abortion rights, or that they won’t save abortion rights when elected? Because those are braindead takes. The Rs will absolutely remove abortions at a federal level, so, by default, voting D saves what little abortion rights there are, even if they did nothing, which they fucking won’t.
Yes, they have done nothing to prevent SCOTUS justices that Trump put in place to end Roe. Because they weren’t president at the time. Also, there was never a time when Democrats had the votes to codify Roe. If you can point to a time when Democrats had a pro-choice majority (you cannot count majorities when there were pro-life Democrats making it up), I would like to know when it was.
What good do you think codifying roe as law would have done? Republicans would have repealed it in 2017 when they got the White House and Congress back.
Abortions rights were only protected as a matter of the Constitution, which meant not having a heavy conservative Supreme Court.
What good do you think codifying roe as law would have done? Republicans would have repealed it in 2017 when they got the White House and Congress back.
We’re now seeing what happens when Republicans do that. Maybe Biden would have a bigger majority in his first two years. Maybe he’d still have a majority in the house now.
But we always have to legislate based on what Republicans might do.
The way it unfolds matters. Consider this scenario:
Democrats pass a federal law protecting abortion rights sometime around 2009 or '10. Lots of compromise goes down; maybe it only protects the first trimester, but it’s something.
On top of all other Tea Party rhetoric (which led to a wave election for them in 2010 as it was), they also make abortion more of an issue. Except because it was Democrats who actively did something, Republicans get to turn the narrative on them.
Republicans repeal this law whenever they next have the power to do so. They don’t get punished by voters, at least not much, because they specifically ran on it. Besides, at least for now, Constitutional law still blocks the worst abortion bans.
What actually happened was that Republicans caused a series of events that completely removes Constitutional protections, and then promptly passed laws (sometimes before the Supreme Court actually ruled!) taking advantage of the new situation. That’s huge, and voters are punishing that severely. Doubly so because many of the state bans have no exceptions for life of the mother or other things that voters support. The severe pushback wouldn’t apply to repealing a law that would likely have been a compromise, anyway, and also all the state-level stuff stays as it is.
About the best thing you can say about the current situation is that Republicans overplayed their hand, and voters are killing them in elections they “should” have won. The above is more of a tit-for-tat that isn’t going to enrage voters against either side.
equally bad. one lies to your face and deceives, one is too stupid to even bother.
neither option was a good option. one changed their minds when it was beneficial for votes, the other knew that the dnc would fuck it up and didn’t bother changing anything.
also, biden is shit, and obama was too. sorry, they all are war mongering fascists that take money from corporations to do their bidding, and don’t genuinely give a shit about people. no one bothers to see beyond the favorable cnn headlines and the whitewashing of history because the situation now is so bad.
That’s ridiculous. You think Hillary would have tried to nuke a hurricane? Do you think she would have suggested using bleach to cure COVID? Do you think she would have had record job losses and record debt increases? Do you think she would have implemented massive tax cuts for the rich? Do you think she would have called Nazis marching in Charlottesville ‘very fine people?’ Do you think she would have lied about losing an election and instigated a riot? Do you think she would tell a secretary of state to just find votes for her? Do you think she would try to make a deal with Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Hunter Biden?
Most importantly: Do you think she would have appointed far-right Supreme Court justices that would end Roe v. Wade and done other massive damage since the three Trump appointed were confirmed?
Hillary was overwhelmingly a better option than Trump and that was even apparent when he was running and telling people exactly what he was going to do.
Not wanting an out-and-out fascist supporting Project 2025 into the White House is not ‘sucking Biden’s dick,’ it’s desperately trying to stop this country from turning into Nazi Germany. Biden is awful. He’s still not going to put people in concentration camps. Trump has promised to do exactly that.
At this point I am leaning towards voting for some odd third party candidate but not sure yet. I will most likely leave the President option blank and just move on to the rest of my ballot.
But you don’t care about that because you apparently don’t care if 10-year-old rape victims are forced to give birth.
Corporate Democrats also aren’t planning to implement Project 2025. Trump’s people are.
But sure, out-and-out Nazi Germany-style fascism is so much better than what corporate Democrats would do. Look at Biden! He’s putting people in concentration camps and using the military to quell protests like Trump is promising to do, right?
And, of course, Trump is totally anti-corporate, isn’t he? He just hates corporations and wants to do everything he can to keep them in check, right? So he would be so much better than the corporate Democrats. Definitely for sure true because that sounds like Trump.
Are you actually saying Hillary was worse than Trump?
It’s not a matter of worse, on paper or otherwise. Decades of negative news about her; so, public sentiment was completely tainted and perceived her that way. She was and is completely up on things having to do with this country and worldly things. Trump should have been disqualified, not officially, but given the demonstration to the opposite. I think you mentioned it in your original comment, people don’t pay attention. They even seem to get angry when I fill them in, too. We’re totally fucked.
Besides, when you offer to lower taxes or claim a good economy, no amount of cruelty is off the table (e.g. kids in cages).
She lost for a reason. Regardless of agreement with her policies or her less evil status she was politically unviable. Trump had the “outsider” angle that meant people could project their own views on him. Hillary had baggage. And wasn’t even very progressive
“She lost for a reason” does not mean she would have been a worse president than Trump. Do you also think Gore would have been a worse president than Bush or a second Carter term would have been worse than Reagan’s first term?
I don’t think op was saying that she would have been a worse president, but rather a worse candidate, as in she was uncompetitive.
Honestly there would be very little difference in the state of the world today had Hillary won. The protests in occupied Palestine may have not kicked off so hard if Hillary won and didn’t move the embassy. We definitely wouldn’t have free healthcare or bullet trains or even student debt relief had she won. It would be like right now with bidensupporting continuing to support genocidal regimes around the worldi in order to maintain western hegemony.
The lesser of two evils is still evil
She was a worse candidate.
theres nothing good about a corporate Democrat, or any republican.
See what I said below. Or just answer this one last question I asked below: Do you think she would have appointed far-right Supreme Court justices that would end Roe v. Wade and done other massive damage since the three Trump appointed were confirmed?
far right no, centrist right leaning? absolutely. democrats campaigned for republicans in texas and Minnesota because they were progressive left, not toe the line corporate democrats. why didn’t obama codify roe as law when he had the change for years? because it’s a cash cow. “vote for us to save abortion rights!” now roe is overturned, “vote for us to fight for ablution rights!” they could havw solved that issue.
So better than Trump? Wouldn’t have overturned Roe? Sounds like a better choice then. Or do you think abortion rights aren’t incredibly important?
Also, when did Obama have the majority of pro-choice votes in congress to codify it? In the six months when they had a majority? Joe Donnelly was in the senate, which was in a razor thing margin, and he was pro-life. As were a couple of other Democrats at the time. The idea that he could have codified Roe is nonsense.
you understand THEY HAVE DONE FUCKING NOTHING TO PROTECT ABORTION RIGHTS right? you do understand that, right?
Except for all the state level protections that are now going into effect, even in deep red states.
Are you suggesting that they shouldn’t campaign on saving abortion rights, or that they won’t save abortion rights when elected? Because those are braindead takes. The Rs will absolutely remove abortions at a federal level, so, by default, voting D saves what little abortion rights there are, even if they did nothing, which they fucking won’t.
Yes, they have done nothing to prevent SCOTUS justices that Trump put in place to end Roe. Because they weren’t president at the time. Also, there was never a time when Democrats had the votes to codify Roe. If you can point to a time when Democrats had a pro-choice majority (you cannot count majorities when there were pro-life Democrats making it up), I would like to know when it was.
It’s like you can’t see how A leads to B.
What good do you think codifying roe as law would have done? Republicans would have repealed it in 2017 when they got the White House and Congress back.
Abortions rights were only protected as a matter of the Constitution, which meant not having a heavy conservative Supreme Court.
We’re now seeing what happens when Republicans do that. Maybe Biden would have a bigger majority in his first two years. Maybe he’d still have a majority in the house now.
But we always have to legislate based on what Republicans might do.
The way it unfolds matters. Consider this scenario:
What actually happened was that Republicans caused a series of events that completely removes Constitutional protections, and then promptly passed laws (sometimes before the Supreme Court actually ruled!) taking advantage of the new situation. That’s huge, and voters are punishing that severely. Doubly so because many of the state bans have no exceptions for life of the mother or other things that voters support. The severe pushback wouldn’t apply to repealing a law that would likely have been a compromise, anyway, and also all the state-level stuff stays as it is.
About the best thing you can say about the current situation is that Republicans overplayed their hand, and voters are killing them in elections they “should” have won. The above is more of a tit-for-tat that isn’t going to enrage voters against either side.
“Never do anything. Think of what Republicans might say.”
Nonsense. How you do it matters. This plan would not have worked.
But they are not equivalent things.
They’re the same picture
Left, left, left, right, ole left, right, left…
equally bad. one lies to your face and deceives, one is too stupid to even bother.
neither option was a good option. one changed their minds when it was beneficial for votes, the other knew that the dnc would fuck it up and didn’t bother changing anything.
also, biden is shit, and obama was too. sorry, they all are war mongering fascists that take money from corporations to do their bidding, and don’t genuinely give a shit about people. no one bothers to see beyond the favorable cnn headlines and the whitewashing of history because the situation now is so bad.
That’s ridiculous. You think Hillary would have tried to nuke a hurricane? Do you think she would have suggested using bleach to cure COVID? Do you think she would have had record job losses and record debt increases? Do you think she would have implemented massive tax cuts for the rich? Do you think she would have called Nazis marching in Charlottesville ‘very fine people?’ Do you think she would have lied about losing an election and instigated a riot? Do you think she would tell a secretary of state to just find votes for her? Do you think she would try to make a deal with Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Hunter Biden?
Most importantly: Do you think she would have appointed far-right Supreme Court justices that would end Roe v. Wade and done other massive damage since the three Trump appointed were confirmed?
Hillary was overwhelmingly a better option than Trump and that was even apparent when he was running and telling people exactly what he was going to do.
I’m glad Hillary lost. I’m sick and tired of neoliberals implementing the same policies again and again that have been proven not to work.
You’re glad we had Trump as president? So I assume you’re voting for him again this time, right? Biden is a neoliberal after all.
Yes. It just shows what a joke western democracy is.
By the time the Roman Empire fell, the citizens welcomed the barbarians into Rome , plagued by corruption.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire
I am not voting for Biden. I don’t vote for neoliberals.
Donald Trump thanks you for your support.
Having fun sucking Biden’s dick on Lemmy 👍
Not wanting an out-and-out fascist supporting Project 2025 into the White House is not ‘sucking Biden’s dick,’ it’s desperately trying to stop this country from turning into Nazi Germany. Biden is awful. He’s still not going to put people in concentration camps. Trump has promised to do exactly that.
Who would you vote for instead? And if they told you to vote Joe Biden, would you?
At this point I am leaning towards voting for some odd third party candidate but not sure yet. I will most likely leave the President option blank and just move on to the rest of my ballot.
“I don’t like raisins, that’s why I’d rather eat dog poop if given the choice.”
More like I don’t like dog poop, no matter how many fresh raisins it has in it.
that’s all noise. I don’t care about your cnn headlines. o care about legislation. records indicate otherwise.
Really? Getting rid of Roe is ‘noise?’
I guess you don’t care much about women.
fuckloads more than corporate democrats, who have done absolutely nothing
Corporate Democrats wouldn’t have ended Roe.
But you don’t care about that because you apparently don’t care if 10-year-old rape victims are forced to give birth.
Corporate Democrats also aren’t planning to implement Project 2025. Trump’s people are.
But sure, out-and-out Nazi Germany-style fascism is so much better than what corporate Democrats would do. Look at Biden! He’s putting people in concentration camps and using the military to quell protests like Trump is promising to do, right?
And, of course, Trump is totally anti-corporate, isn’t he? He just hates corporations and wants to do everything he can to keep them in check, right? So he would be so much better than the corporate Democrats. Definitely for sure true because that sounds like Trump.
Jesus.
The guy you’re replying to is clearly a right-wing troll posing in order to wedge drive. Or the dumbest stoner alive.
Manchin voted to confirm two of the justices that did.
This guy’s a chump. I suggest blocking them. Given good information in an argument and all they can come up with is “I don’t care”. Chump
CNN is right wing, you’re falling for every piece of crap talking point they’ll throw at you.
When you realize almost all of the media and government in the world are controlled by billionaires it all makes perfect sense
What legislation did the president vote for our write?