I am an Xer who manages a small but crucial team at my workplace (in an EU country). I had a lady resign last week, and I have another who may be about to resign or I may have to let go due to low engagement. They are both Gen Z. Today it hit me: the five years I’ve been managing this department, the only people I’ve lost have been from Gen Z. Clearly I do not know how to manage Gen Z so that they are happy working here. What can I do? I want them to be as happy as my Millennial team members. One detail that might matter is that my team is spread over three European cities.

Happy to provide any clarification if anyone wants it.

Edit. Thanks for all the answers even if a few of them are difficult to hear (and a few were oddly angry?) This has been very helpful for me, much more so than it probably would have been at the Old Place.

Also the second lady I mentioned who might quit or I might have to let go? She quit the day after I posted this giving a week’s notice yesterday. My team is fully supportive, but it’s going to be a rough couple of months.

  • NAK@lemmy.world
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    Generations aren’t a monolith. It’s reductive to say “these people are leaving because they’re from a different generation.”

    The best thing you can do is perform an exit interview and ask them why they decided to move on. If they’re good people they’ll give you an honest answer.

    And remember, young people in the workforce now have had adults in their lives who were likely laid off during the 2008 financial crisis. Those adults were, correctly, teaching their children that companies are not loyal to their employees, so do not be loyal to your company.

    They are probably leaving for more pay, better benefits, or a promotion of some kind. The only way you’ll know for certain is if you ask.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      They are probably leaving for more pay, better benefits, or a promotion of some kind. The only way you’ll know for certain is if you ask.

      I’m going to second this. The best way to retain workers is to be pay the most in combined pay and benefits. work is transactional- it’s always been transactional, really. Employees are starting to realize that, and are going to be job hopping more.

      Work is inherently transactional. You pay employees for the work they do. They do work for the pay and whatever benefits get added to it. Ultimately, if people are leaving, its because they feel there’s a better transaction to be made elsewhere. (and no. Donut Day and free coffee aren’t ‘benefits’… looking at you Clay.)

      In any case, the way to retain individuals it ensure their pay and benefits keep pace with the demands of their current skill set. this means raises, increases in benefits and promotions. (Also, generally respect your employees, and stuff like that… but I’m assuming that’s not really the problem.)

  • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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    What do you mean by low engagement? Are they not doing their work in their given hours?

    I’m a millennial but I imagine it’s the same issue.

    Work isn’t something I want to do. It’s something I have to do to for money. If someone offers me more money I’m going to take it.

    So first thing to check is are they just leaving for better pay. If so paying them more is basically your only option.

    In my industry (software development) the average length at a job for younger people is two years because it’s the only way to get a decent pay rise in many cases.

    The idea of loyalty to a company is dying a quick death.

    If it’s not that the only to find out is to talk to them. Ask them if they’re willing to do an exit interview and see if there’s anything you can improve on.

    • Kadath (she/her)@lemmy.world
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      Work isn’t something I want to do. It’s something I have to do to for money. If someone offers me more money I’m going to take it.

      GenX here. Same for me. I take pride in what I do, but the moment the clock hits 17 the whole company can burn down for all I care.

    • ZMonster@lemmy.world
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      Just pointing out that we didn’t invent that mantra for ourselves. I’ve heard that same thing incessantly from teachers and professors which were gen x and boomers over the years.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          because retaining long-term employees is generally expensive, so companies do things to make sure job hopping is the only way to earn what you’re actually worth. this is 100% a response to companies own policies and not anything labor is doing.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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              usually the savings are in benefits, and the expectations of raises. You’re also assuming they’re hiring from similarly qualified and experienced. They’re not. they’re hiring inexperienced people with lower qualifications… and frequently, the new people will be low balled as well.

              And I’m not arguing that experience is valuable, but the large companies don’t see it that way. large corporations are quite literally only concerned about short term profits- the get rich quick schemes. they’re not not concerned at all about producing quality products over the long term, or developing healthy work environment sore anything else. strictly what yields the highest profits in that moment.

                • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                  Mostly it comes down to companies being owned by institutions like black rock or vanguard, who don’t really care about anything other than what makes money- and are perfectly okay jumping ship when it doesn’t.

                  This means that they’re controlled by shareholders that only care about steadily increasing profits over a very short period (quarterly).

                  Also just to point out that buffet doesn’t just dump everything into the s&p like he advised every one else to do. He utilizes a broad mix of strategies- including things like swing trading across opportunities his horde of fintel peeps find for him.

                • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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                  Warren Buffett will buy and sell quickly if his investment meets or exceeds his targets. Berkshire Hathaway has a stock portfolio in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

                  What he won’t do is act without a plan. He has a unique ability to see long term advantages, that’s why he holds over the long term. Short term opportunity exists too, but many people who look for it are impatient.

        • ZMonster@lemmy.world
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          I don’t know why they just wouldn’t make it attractive to stay.

          I don’t get it. I don’t think I ever will.

          Every single job I have left is because I literally couldn’t afford to stay. I know you want to pin the phenomena on some obscure difference in generational ideology. It’s not that difficult. It’s not that obscure. We grew up in places we will never afford. You come from a generation that could pay 100% for college with a summer job, and you turned around and added a requirement for a college degree just to get that summer job which now days doesn’t even cover the rent.

          Pay has dropped relative to cost of living year over year since the 90s. I couldn’t get my employers to give me raises just to match inflation. And still, I hear boomers crowing about how uncommitted millennials and zoomers are from their half a million dollar homes. My gen x coworkers owned boats and I was struggling to make the rent.

          The problem here is not that younger generations aren’t capable of committing, it’s that older generations have grown out of touch with modern day cost. Some boomer rear ended me last year and was furious that I wouldn’t take his $150. He laughed when I told him his insurance would give me $2k easily. They paid out $2800. I am honestly still confounded how far out of reality you’d have to be to think that a bumper would only cost $150. You could argue that he was only trying to cheat me but that only proves my point more that us getting royally fucked by older generations is not from our own doing.

            • ZMonster@lemmy.world
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              For those co-workers who have boats, you likely don’t have the full picture of their finances.

              Yeah yeah yeah, I get it. I mean, I promise it’s you who doesn’t have the full picture - I live in Alaska, there are no cheap boats up here, there are no cheap houses, there are no cheap hobbies, etc. - you don’t qualify for all of those things without the ability make at least the minimum payments. Nevertheless, you missed the point. I didn’t have the credit to get a single snow machine or motorcycle, let alone enough of them to also need a toy hauler to tote them around. There is a vast difference between struggling to make rent, and being able to acquire myriad recreational vehicles regardless of how “paper thin you may feel their outward appearing lives are”. And the difference in experience and skill was not that much. I had to teach those idiot x genrs how computers work and a few of them still today “don’t use email”. So I’m just not buying the “evaluation” argument. I know what they brought to the table, because I was the asshole fixing their sloppy ass work.

              My god man, you are missing the point. You seem to only see my problems through the lens of your own life, which sounds like it has been mostly affordable. That’s my point. You have grown out of touch. Things are not affordable. I’m not talking about fucking jet skis. I’m talking about groceries and rent.

              JFC, I had to live out of my occasionally running car for two years and I’m getting boomersplained about perspective. 🙄

        • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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          Short-sighted behavior: People are incentivized to not stay.

          The only thing that I have seen personally work is private companies doing a company stock program. You only share with the owners and other employees, thus you get a bigger piece of the pie. I have seen coworkers retire holding a $1,000,000 in shares (plus the same in their 4K)!

          However, this was a large private company.

    • datavoid@lemmy.ml
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      Definitely this - you can stay with a company and get a small raise yearly (maybe), or switch roles and advance quickly

    • Chocrates@lemmy.world
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      Yeah, I wonder if pay is competitive with the market and they are getting pay raises to stay competitive. I am making less than new hires with less experience only because I got hired years ago.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      I’m also gen X, but the two year rule has been around my entire career, at least for tech jobs. In the first half of your career, in order to build experience and increase compensation, you need to change jobs frequently. Anything less than 2 years is a problem with stability, so change jobs every 2+ years. Anything more than you need to, and your pay lags your peers, and you likely are not gaining sufficient experience to advance your career

      I had an interesting conversation with an interviewer about ten years ago - I’m in part of my career where I thought stability is desired, but they were concerned whether someone at the same place ten years could adjust. LoL. Apparently even in the latter half of your career, it’s important to switch jobs regularly

      • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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        I’m also gen X, but the two year rule has been around my entire career, at least for tech jobs.

        Same, and same.

        I ended up making a lot more money in my career by moving around.

    • CoderKat@lemm.ee
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      Not just a path to advance, but a path that feels fair and is faster than changing jobs. A lot of places that do pay well still make it easier to go up a level as an external hire than they do for an internal promotion. In other words, it’s easier to get “promoted” by switching jobs.

      Which is pretty weird. Companies would rather make the decision based off a few hours of interviews for someone who knows nothing about their company, over years of data for someone who knows the company well. I think it’s partly “grass is always greener” and also partly companies wanting to pay people less when they already employ them. They’ll pay more for external hires cause they want to get em, but once they’re there, there’s less reason to pay more.

        • CoderKat@lemm.ee
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          Or at the very least, lower level employees often don’t get to give big ideas. A big way to get your ideas listened to is to get promoted in the first place. Small ideas only do so much. Sometimes there’s big, systemic problems that need big ideas to fix.

  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
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    Stop trying to be their friend or do anything outside of office hours. 99.9% of people are not at the workplace out of free will because whatever it is you’re doing is what they want to spend the next 40 years of their lives doing exclusively.

    As others have said, fight for more pay and benefits and fuck everything else. Which may not be easy in your position which I assume is middle management. Most of us footmen are very much aware of how you guys are essentially just used as the fall guys for all kinds of bad news from above, and that you have little leeway in making such decisions at your level.

    • ZMonster@lemmy.world
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      ###As others have said, fight for more pay and benefits and fuck everything else.

      FTFY 😂 Honestly, I’m amazed how few people get this very basic concept.

  • Furbag@lemmy.world
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    First of all, let me say this - You are better than 99% of managers out there because you are asking yourself these questions. It means you are wise enough to acknowledge shortcomings and mature enough to seek help. So thank you. I wish more people had your worth ethic. You are probably a cool manager, and those are hard to come by these days.

    Are you conducting exit interviews? I know it seems pointless, since they have likely already taken other jobs and it’s too late to try and entice them back with a deal, but it does provide some context as to why they are leaving the company. They’ve got a new gig lined up, so they don’t need to pull any punches. You will tend to get honest answers.

  • maudefi@lemm.ee
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    No, you don’t know how to manage genZ (or any other cohort) because that’s not a fucking thing.

    Start here:

    Fight to pay them more. Period. This should be at the top of your daily to-do list. Your team is the reason you have a job, and they’re the reason your shareholders live such splendid lives. So, you want to keep your position(s) of benefit & security? Then never stop fighting for worker’s pay & benefit INCREASES. It is really hard to care about management, production (or shareholders 🙄) when you can’t take care of yourself or your family.

    Curate a safe, work-focused environment that supports the life-cycle of a product that actually solves current, real-world problems like - global warming, profiteering, equality, etc.

    Stop managing and learn how to lead.

    Leaders:

    Know how to say, “I don’t know.”

    Show / do by example

    Share knowledge

    Support and foster knowledge sharing.

    Shut their goddamn mouths and trust their teams to succeed (that’s why you hired them in the first place right?) and when the team/member falls short of PREVIOUSLY AGREED UPON goals you work together to address the extenuating circumstance(s).

    Every company’s greatest asset and product is the verve, innovation, and vision of its employees. Squash, or worse, fail to invest in any of these aspects of your workforce and the human beings you’re trying to “manage” will “manage” themselves into better working conditions elsewhere.

    • AgentOrangesicle@lemmy.world
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      You said everything people need to hear, but in a cruel and condescending voice to someone looking to fix the issue that we’re all pissed off about. Consider your presentation given the context, homie.

        • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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          That’s just it, I’m not angry about it.

          It’s more like there’s parts I really agree with and parts I really disagree with.

          And then, with the parts that I agree with and the parts I disagree with, how they were presented in some ways I liked and in other ways I really disliked.

          • ryannathans@aussie.zone
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            Up/down votes are just a system for suggesting other people read the post. Nothing more. Should it get more visibility?

            • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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              Up/down votes are just a system for suggesting other people read the post. Nothing more. Should it get more visibility?

              Well that’s a side effect, I can’t agree with you though that that’s the only reason, as I know that’s not how people use it.

              They use it to either agree or disagree to what’s being said, or to show their approval/disapproval of how the comment was written, that it was with written well or not, even if they disagree with what was being said.

                • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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                  Understood, but when you’re describing it’s just a technical mechanics of it. What I’m speaking towards is why the button was pushed in the first place.

          • Aolley@lemmy.world
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            the old subreddit r/aBetterWorld is an idea that would help you exactly in this instance if it were not just an idea

  • I think I’m suited to answer this. I manage multiple people, including Gen Z. I am also Gen Z. People are actively trying to work here.

    One of the biggest factors is employee appreciation and respect. A lot of companies will half-ass that front through just giving their employees an occasional pizza party. The problem with that style of management, is that it removes the human aspect. It kind of just turns it into another thing to just “check off the list” for corporate. It’s something commonly thrown back at employees who complain. We’ve seen that happen enough to not want to deal with it.

    It’s also important to focus on the little things. Small details are what make up the big picture. If you leave those out, the big picture will be incomplete. Congratulate them when they reach a new goal. Tell them when they do work that would make the company proud, within reason. Encourage them, and actually work alongside them sometimes. If you want to throw free food on top, maybe poll your staff for their opinions on restaurants/food trucks. Show them you care.

    Regarding the human aspect, a happy employee stays, and a happy employee is also usually a productive employee. Get to know your staff a bit, casually. Try to give reasonable allowances for time off during stressful life situations, like when their home floods or their sibling dies. Most companies will only allow the legal minimum.

    Don’t expect more from them than what you are willing to do yourself.

    Accept their imperfections and work with them towards improvement. Instead of shouting, go straight towards the solution, and include them in the process. Allow them to learn how to avoid the mistake and learn how to fix it with you. Don’t baby step it, but maybe show them a cool trick for that process if you have one. Remember that they are human and that there was also a time where you didn’t know how to do it.

    I’ll be frank with you. Many of us don’t see a great future over the horizon, so we’re kind of making the best with what we have. We want to enjoy as much of the time in-between as we can. We’ve seen our grandparents, parents, siblings, and other family members become burnt out and emotionally overwhelmed, and we don’t want that for ourselves.

    The best way to not have that, is to not go along with it. So, hypothetically, I would go to the next job that treats it’s employees well, even if the wage is the same. Why would I waste my efforts and hard labor on someone who doesn’t value it? Why not spend it somewhere where I can learn, improve, and thrive?

    • Lemmylaugh@lemmy.ml
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      Those all apply to any employee though regardless of generations. Gen z gonna look for another job after 2 years. Expect it.

      • I don’t disagree with that. For some reason, a lot of places think that Gen Z will put up with it like their parents and grandparents did. They treat them like crud, then they’re shocked when they leave.

        Of course Gen Z might change jobs within 2 years. Most people don’t have their entire life plan figured out in their 20’s, which I think is fair. It’s even more understandable with the craziness of everything going on around the world.

    • CoderKat@lemm.ee
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      And in general, I think younger people are more willing to take risks. Changing jobs can be annoying. You have to start from scratch with learning everything, getting to know your coworkers, potentially moving, etc. But on the other hand, a new job can typically give a pay increase (which young people especially need). In many jobs, the only way to get a decent pay increase is to jump ship.

  • Hagels_Bagels@lemmygrad.ml
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    This post seems ridiculous to me. If you would like to know why your employees are unhappy then why would you ask random strangers on the internet why they are leaving your company? If your (or anyone’s) workplace culture discourages employees to air grievances then you aren’t entitled to know why they would like to switch companies. Most likely, I think that young people don’t wish to be percieved or talked about as whiny (or any other words you can use), in the event that they raise issues which management or colleagues view as unimportant or inconsequential for the company. I’m also curious as to how you know that your Millennial team members are happy, as opposed to working just because they need the money and don’t see better opportunities elsewhere.

    • Digitalprimate@lemmy.worldOP
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      I don’t think you got down far enough to the place where I explained I did ask them and got a bs answer. Or how I know my Millennials are happy with the job (mostly, there’s always something that could be better). And I did get them a lot more money last year, risking the wrath of every other member of senior management.

      Talking down to anyone at my workplace is a huge no no. Our owner/CEO is a seriously old school Cypriot and takes his (mainly British inherited) civility very seriously.

  • ZzyzxRoad@lemm.ee
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    Does “low engagement” mean “objectively not doing the job you are paying them to do”? Or does it mean “not going ‘above and beyond,’ aka not working unpaid overtime or doing things outside their job description”? Because only one of these warrants letting someone go.

    • Digitalprimate@lemmy.worldOP
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      In this case unfortunately it means “objectively not doing the job you are paying them to do.” Like, core job duties.

      • Wahots@pawb.social
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        I’d conduct exit interviews and ask them truthfully. For me, there’s a decent amount of fucking around at our company- the same amount in person at the office as there is remotely. But regardless of location, our work always gets done, in decent quality and in a timely manner. (Gen Z/millenial + boomers)

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    Try paying them better. It really is that simple.

    Everyone’s giving you long-winded answers, but this is the ultimate truth.

    PAY MORE

    • Digitalprimate@lemmy.worldOP
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      I did. I fought with my CEO for two months and got everyone in the department except me a massive raise, 15%-20%.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        15%-20%.

        FYI, it’s entirely possible that they’ve been undervalued so much even that’s not enough.

        • Adlach@lemmygrad.ml
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          I would need a 70% raise to be at market average for my position. Needless to say I’m interviewing.

        • triclops6@lemmy.ca
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          That’s not all on the manager though, they’re not the final decision maker. Op isn’t to blame for that

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            All layers of management are complicit. It is his choice to continue working there instead of resigning in protest, so he owns every decision he is directed to implement.

            • triclops6@lemmy.ca
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              As long as he’s implementing, perhaps. Raises are not always budgeted at the 1st line manager level. It may be beyond his control.

              And quitting a job you don’t agree with makes sense if you have other options, it’s foolish otherwise. Keep trying to make change from within

              • grue@lemmy.world
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                And quitting a job you don’t agree with makes sense if you have other options, it’s foolish otherwise. Keep trying to make change from within

                “I was just following orders” does not absolve OP, or anybody else. You either quit in protest or you’re a motherfucking class traitor.

                • triclops6@lemmy.ca
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                  I barely want to continue this, but I think your view is that it’s 1st line workers vs the 2%, the reality is the working class goes a few levels above that, and again you try to change the system from within, you don’t resign and live in poverty

                  Also managers and Nazis are not the same

        • limeaide@lemmy.ml
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          True lmao. I know someone that was working under a project manager making $15/hr and whenever they got promoted to project manager they got a whopping THIRTEEN percent raise. Which sounds nice and all but it only ended up being like $2 more per hour lol

          She is actively taking job interviews now

  • atrielienz@lemmy.world
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    I can tell you why I’m quitting. I’m a millennial. I generally loved the people I work with. I like the work environment. Or I did. We have several old timers quitting right now. The attrition rate is through the roof. Retirement is upon a lot of the old guys and they’re leaving either for better jobs or for ones that are less stressful if they aren’t retiring. The younger ones (millennials and gen z) don’t see the point in sticking around if the older cohort leaves and take their knowledge with them. There’s no one to train us, and worse still, changes to the way that my worksite is managed make staying untenable. We don’t want to be left holding the bag so to speak. Blamed for low productivity after the older guys are all gone and the knowledge gap becomes more apparent. We aren’t really paid well enough, and we don’t see the kind of COLA adjustments we should.

    Additionally, there is a shortage of us, we have expenses on tools and so on that add up and the company I work for doesn’t manage slow times and busy times. So I can’t even count on overtime. Sometimes it’s mandatory. Sometimes it’s nowhere to be found.

    I have brought up multiple issues with safety and legal responsibility and been told by my manager that they need to think about it - repeatedly. I feel like my concerns aren’t being addressed. I want a good home/work balance. I spend 10 hours or more a day at work, and sometimes that’s 4 days a week sometimes it’s 7.

    Worrying and stress are a big part of why I am leaving. I don’t want to be worried or stressed all the time. I don’t want to think about work outside of work.

    You sound like a good boss who is engaged in the development of your employees. That’s good. But sometimes it’s just that we often take jobs because we have to, not because we want to. And when something better comes along we feel like we have to take the chance.

    • Wahots@pawb.social
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      1 year ago

      God, when some of our senior team retires, I’m immediately finding a new job. Shit will hit the fan, and the age gap is like, 30 years. And we are probably still understaffed since most of the team is nearing retirement.

      • atrielienz@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah. There’s a lot of new technology but nothing can make up for having thirty years experience on the old tech that’s still in use.

  • Throwaway@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    I would ask her directly, say that you want to know why you lose gen z workers.

    Just remember that they’re still early in their careers, changing jobs is about the only way to get a raise these days.

  • Steeve@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    Not a very big sample size, did you perform an exit interview? Why not just ask their thoughts on the way out?