For context, in my password manager I had tried formatting some of my entrees so that it would contain the usual username and password, but instead of creating whole new entrees for the security questions for the same account, I just added additional fields in the same entree in order to keep things a little more tidy.
I was not expecting that doing so would result in later being shaken down by Proton to pay even more money just to access the same few bytes of fucking text I had trusted them with. This is sleazy as fuck and I am dropping these idiots entirely.
Dude, jfc calm down. You pay a little money to get premium services, instead of them monetizing user data. This is the way the world works with paid software, except they’re not making money on your data and you, just you.
Maybe some context in what exactly you pay for would help too. I’m assuming you pay for a base tier of mail, bc I use their password manager too but pay for the full suite, and don’t have this issue.
Maybe also a chat with support might find this to be an unexpected bug, but instead you’re coming to Lemmy to the echo chamber of hate on proton which won’t help.
It sounds like this is the free service charging to access data you already gave them with the expectation it would always be available later. And which might not exist elsewhere.
That’s not fremium, that’s ransomware.
Yes, that’s exactly how it worked, and it is ransomware.
Lol at you both! First, I think you need help with your dictionaries because you’re using the complete wing terminology… That or you’re super dramatic calling it ransomware LMAO. You’re probably also those types who jump to comment at anything CG just to post AI slop… Like how back in the day it was cool to post “first” on something.
There are free tiers and paid tiers, and sounds like OP was trying to work around those free tiers to get a few extra benefits. If not, and genuinely trying to use a certain way, why not contact support to try and get access to that data even temporarily, or go to community forum to see if it’s by design? Why not look for a proper resolution vs just complaining about it?
BTW I can completely understand the frustrations, but you gotta also understand not every single company or dev is going to use the same exact method, designs, goals, etc. Proton, starting from scientists not business entrepreneurs. They decided to build a suite of apps as alternatives to the popular big brother versions, the paid tiers help support the free ones so everyone could have access. The money also helps fund staff support, devs, qa, etc. Just saying. There’s a lot more polish on those apps than pretty much any actually free and private so out there. And having the support there to answer questions vs rely solely on wordy documentation or community forums is now speaking to the average Joe.
I won’t say your wrong, but IMHO it’s unacceptable for a password manager to not warn you that information you give will be inaccessible without paying more money. Imagine if someone gave you 30 free entries before requiring a subscription, but let you add any number of accounts. Unless you want to reset all those passwords, your forced to pay them.
You sound like the kind of person who, in the 90s, would have defended Microsoft against GNU and Linux and the FOSS movement as a whole, “This is the way the world works.” No. I was using Keepass prior to Proton Pass. Proton proved to be a downgrade in every way. As a company they are in the same bracket as Ubuntu - trojan horse style grifters who wave juuust enough open-source around to lull users into dependency on a service that overall does not support user freedoms. They are grifters. It’s the same playbook as Google.
Software needs to be free on every level. It’s fine to sell free software, but if any part of it is proprietary, it’s as the FSF says - it’s a tool of unjust power over you.
And I don’t need that. Better alternatives already exist. Proton was straight up a downgrade.
So then, like many people, make the switch without being so vocally negative? Or post a comparison on how KeePass vs Proton- KP wins, etc.
Even more, Proton and other companies like them are a good popular gateway to introduce “the masses” to privacy and what it feels like to reclaim their personal lives. It also gives them a “big” name they can put some faith into that the apps will work/won’t crash, and aren’t invasive. So much other marketing and money is spent telling everyone the little guys are the hackers and data thieves, etc. So don’t trust them. So, the mentality is hard to shake.
I sound like the kind of person who understands how business models work (to an extent). Not every single person is going to setup full homelab environments to run all these locally hosted services, or spend a while researching and testing various FOSS applications to try and get "the very best"one. You sound like the kind of person who has a very stern opinion and gets upset when others don’t agree or your shouting doesn’t get them to understand why an alternative is better.
I work with a lot of users who don’t understand the basics of privacy or how data is sucked up at every corner of the Internet. I slowly plant the seeds to show them big names aren’t always better. Little by little they’re finding these things (popular little guys) on their own, and in that discovery keeps their interests piqued vs being told what to do.
Useful idiot detected.
but instead you’re coming to Lemmy to the echo chamber of hate on proton which won’t help
You call it an echo chamber, others call it having some standards on how much your software should be taking advantage of you instead of the other way around.
You have to admit, there are plenty of people either on Reddit (especially) or Lemmy, that seem to crack on/bash on certain companies or views on topics as a heard mentality. I’m guilty of it in the past bc I wanted to trust the heard, but after doing my own research have found whatever it was to not be so bad.
I’ve not been here long, but man, the amount of hate I’ve seen towards proton so far is crazy.
Yeah and all of that hate is deserved, because their products suck, and so do the people who run the company.
Hahaha, please, do share why their products suck, especially the people running it! I’d love to hear something fresh other than claiming the CEO is some trumpster because of some ruin fill interpretation of a god damn tweet… Petty
Use keepassXC instead. You don’t need any kind of cloud for a password manager. Keepass database can by synchronized between devices with syncthing. Safer and free forever
??? I use Proton mail and I never saw something like this. Account with nick, other mail, password and go.
It’s in Proton Pass. When you create an account entree, there is an option to create additional fields that you can name and fill out, kind of like multiple notes in one file. Somehow I was able to create those fields on my account just fine, but then to be given access to that data it turned out that I had to upgrade my account. In other words they duped me into entering data at no extra cost, but then charged me to access that same data later on.
That’s scummy as fuck.
I guarantee they do that on purpose just like all other scams that make you invest your time before telling you you need to pay.
Bitwarden ! Host it yourself.
Vaultwarden 😎
Will host that myself eventually, but a little scared by hardware prices. All I have is a desktop PC with a 700W PSU, probably unsuitable as a home lab.
I’ve been homelabbing for a couple years now, and it’s still just a desktop PC with a 450W PSU, it even has a Jellyfin server with some light transcoding. I’d highly recommend trying out a server you don’t mind breaking and play around, you’d be surprised what you can do!
What tier do you pay for now? Did you ever downgrade your tier?
I am on Proton Plus, $4.99 per month, which I now see does not appear to extend to Pass benefits. I’ve switched password managers already, and am going to be moving everything else over to other apps and services and cancelling my Proton accounts entirely.
Download BitWarden and be done with it.
Bitwarden doesn’t do any of the stuff that makes proton pass extremely usable. You can’t easily manage logins and create them on the fly with custom emails in bit/vaultwarden. That is by far the most valuable feature of proton pass IMO, the seamless integration with simplelogin is just so damn convenient.
Bitwarden has an integration with simplelogin too. Enter an api key and it can generate random aliases on the fly.
Keepass is tried and true, I’m going back to Keepass.
Welcome back 👍
If you can, just self-host vault warden (compatible with bit warden and supported). Gets your data out of the cloud entirely.
I’m with you, but the hosted subscription is miles more secure than I can make my installation, and at $10 per year probably cheaper than the electricity to self host. Plus it supports the devs.
But I do make regular backups in case I need to migrate.
I think their prices have increased, but it’s still a good deal
Why are you suggesting self hosting vaultwarden instead of self hosting bitwarden?
It’s much lighter on the resources while having the exact same functionality.
Self hosting BitWarden still means it’s accessbile for them and/or from them.
You also have no way to audit their security from what I understand. VaultWarden is FOSS, if you want to, you can go check. And it does get checked by people with the competence to check this do every now and then.[Edit: I forgot that BitWarden is actually souce-available as well, while not being FOSS that’s still better than most solutions]. I just prefer full FOSS whenever possible. I prefer it not be a black bos I just happen to run on my own server.If you self host VaultWarden, the instance can just be not accessible from the internet, and only from behing a VPN. Obviously this is inherently much safer. If that’s possible with the self-host option I don’t know, but even just for licensing the local instance will have to be able to reach their servers (possibly be reachable from their servers, too). I did see they got an “offline deployment” option for air-gapped servers, but haven’t looked into what limitations that entails.
Additionally, you’re still within their licensing model. So for certain features you need to have a not-free account (like even just more than 2 people).
And like others said, VaultWarden is much lighter on resources in general and you aren’t limited in what you can and can’t do (users, collecitons, auth-options, …).
Bitwarden offers this feature for free using custom fields, although 2FA is paid unless you self-host IIRC
Vaultwarden is a great self hosted bitwarden clone
But I don’t understand, were you already a premium member when you were prompted to pay more?
I had to look into it again because their pricing models are weird and confusing. My current plan is something called Proton Plus, $4.99 per month, and evidently the benefits do not extend to Pass.
Oh yeah, this is a very annoying pricing model. Proportionally very expensive for each individual part/product, but then a proportionally lower price for the whole thing. But in absolute amounts, more money was payed.
The closest example I can think of is fast food cup sizes.
What they want is for you to think “Hmm I need a VPN and an email, but it’s cheaper to just buy the whole unlimited package”
shaken down by Proton to pay even more money
What are you paying for currently?
I had to look into it, because their pricing plans seem to have changed now. Evidently I have something called Proton Plus, $4.99 per month. It looks like that plans benefits do not extend to additional Proton Pass features.
I’m going to be transferring accounts away from Proton and then closing my accounts entirely. Already moved all my passwords back to Keepass. My main email address has been on posteo(.de), which has been great. Super reliable service from a company who appears to actually get the ethos of FOSS. I only pay, I think $12 per year for their service.
Yeah I thought so. If ya don’t pay for it, ya don’t get to complain about it, bud.
I’m sorry, but what? Number one, we’re talking about text. Bytes of data, which costs next to nothing to store. If you think that it is in any way fair for a company to allow a person to enter information into an account, and then unexpectedly charge them to access that same data, you are insane. If you paid for a storage rental, moved your belongings into it, and then found that the company changed the lock and decided you had to pay more to get your stuff - would you continue renting that storage?
Go back to reddit, corposhill.
we’re talking about text. Bytes of data, which costs next to nothing to store.
No but your files are not stored as text files. That’s not what you’re paying for. You’re paying for the development of the software used to create, store and fill them at the appropriate times and places. If you don’t care about that, just keep them stored as text files on your computer. Boom, problem solved.
If you paid for a storage rental, moved your belongings into it, and then found that the company changed the lock and decided you had to pay more to get your stuff
You keep using that phrase. You are not “paying more” because you never paid anything in the first place.
Go back to reddit, corposhill.
If you think Reddit is the only place that’s going to call you out for being a choosy beggar, you’re in for a surprise.
No but your files are not stored as text files. That’s not what you’re paying for. You’re paying for the development of the software used to create, store and fill them at the appropriate times and places. If you don’t care about that, just keep them stored as text files on your computer. Boom, problem solved.
But you say just below this that I never paid for anything in the first place? In any case, whether paid or not, they still have to compete with other options including free ones like Keepass. Why would I pay for Proton over the free Keepass if Proton is basically ransomware?
You keep using that phrase. You are not “paying more” because you never paid anything in the first place.
Untrue. I was paying for it, and they required that I pay even more just to access the data that their system allowed me to enter.
If you think Reddit is the only place that’s going to call you out for being a choosy beggar, you’re in for a surprise.
You rn:
you say just below this that I never paid for anything in the first place?
Excuse me, let me correct myself: That’s what you’re not paying for. Better? Does that make you anymore correct?
Why would I pay for Proton over the free Keepass if Proton is basically ransomware?
KeePass is local storage. It’s not managed. But by all means, If you don’t see the value, use KeePass. Not sure what you’re complaining here for.
I was paying for it
Okay, so you stopped paying for it. That’s why you can no longer access it. You can still export your data and import it into KeePass. So go do it.
You rn:
- Proton is most certainly not a multi-billion dollar corporation, moron.
- Your argument suggest that corporations aren’t possibly able to hold a valid argument. I’m not siding with the corporations, I’m siding with basic logic and reason. It’s not complicated. You are not entitled to anything they offer if you don’t pay for it.
I don’t think that’s where entrees go.
Hypothetically it should have. Those were additional fields that I added to the main account login entree, in order to keep all the relevant data in one place.
Strange, I keep my entrees covered in the fridge and take them out about one hour before guests show up.
Hey mods just saying… I think a lot of us would appreciate having a rule against offtopic posts.
Andy yen is not gonna fuck you, bro
why? (honest question)
It’s empty venting, and the topic is not about privacy in a meaningful capacity, it’s about a business model.
Allowing venting/drama/gossip threads in a community over time will push out the people (like myself) who care about the actual community topic. And when those people are gone what’s left is a cesspit.
It’s a post criticising a popular privacy-focused company. Some people in this community may want to avoid this company’s products if they know about stuff like this happening. What the fuck is the problem here exactly?
There’s no need to get upset. If you truly are having difficulty understanding my feelings on the topic and are asking in good faith, I’ll explain it one more time:
The topic of this post is that a company is charging money for it’s services. That violates the third rule in the sidebar.
Whatever mine or your feelings on the topic, it has nothing to do with privacy.
The person here wasn’t mad about Proton charging money. They were mad that when they signed up to the service and entrusted login information to Proton it was not a restricted feature, but now Proton has started to request money for it and they can’t get access to it again.
Not to mention this person is already a paying customer, they just don’t pay the 13 dollars Proton started requesting to store a couple bytes of data, or at the very least provide temporary access for backup.
The topic of this post is that a company is charging money for altering what was previously not a restricted feature. That violates the third rule in the sidebar.
I agree OP has a right to be upset, but this post has nothing to do with privacy.
I tried protonmail not for the privacy purpose but just to have a normal web email client.
After wasting an hour before finding out you can’t disable the “sent from protonmail” footer without manually deleting it in each draft you make, I said screw it and deployed my own email server with stalwart lol.
It’s receive only because outgoing SMTP is a pain to make reliable these days and my ISP blocks outgoing SMTP anyway, but for everything else I now use Thunderbird.
What do you mean? It’s a slider setting you can turn on or off individually for each address (if you want to keep it one one but not others). It’s under identity and addresses.
IIRC free users don’t have that option.
Ah, that makes sense. Always blows my mind when people complain about free tier limitations, especially from companies that don’t make money from selling your data.
Pretty sure the warning signs were apparent when the CEO submitted to Trump. it just his “personal beliefs” and not representative of the company. Right.
The CEO was lobbying for online privacy by publicly shaming the Democrats. He was doing his job.
Why is it that just doing their job excuse or just following orders tends to be associated with questionable actions as opposed to positive ones? It’s starting to seem like a red flag if those two phrases get used for an action.
He made a mean tweet about the Democrats, it’s not like he loaded bullets into ICE guns.
Complimentary remarks to Republicans depicting them as a party open to being privacy respecting and respect for the rule of law. Took the Joe Rogan hand book of trying to sane wash the Republicans and downplay concerns regarding them while trying to come off as moderate.
And it aged terribly. Someone who went to Harvard and spent significant time in the US wasn’t blind to what those way less educated than him saw when it came to the direction the US was headed towards before Trump officially took office.
He was rightfully criticized because Trump never hid his intentions during the election, so people were not impressed by the pandering like all the current tech bros part of the Trump inner circle.
