Can there be another Whigs party
also like to point out that many of them are DINOs, and are republicans that wouldnt be electable otherwise in a GOP primary, so they have to put a democratic facade to just get elected.
The Republicans move politics to the right by passing bills, and the Democrats block movement to the left by losing on purpose.
It’s not the democratic party, it’s the US itself that is rotten. The dem are just another manifestation of the issue.
There’s no way to win political power in the United States without the Democratic Party or the Republican Party.
Socialists and progressives will always have an easier time infiltrating the neoliberal Democratic Party over the fascist Republican Party.
The longer the fascists are in power the harder it will be remove them from power because they will change the rules to maintain power.
The optimal strategy remains to vote for neoliberals when the alternative is fascists because that is how to create time for socialists and progressives to primary neoliberals in the Democratic Party and win general elections.
This meme is a continuation of the accelerationism we saw during the 2024 election. It supports the fascist cause by attempting to sabotage leftist’s best strategy and thus is pro-fascist. The user is prone to self-sabotage as they publicly admitted to not voting for Harris in 2024.
If a fascist drinks at your bar and you don’t throw them out it’s a fascist bar. If a fascist meme ends up in your community and you don’t throw it your a fascist community.
I am reporting this meme. And you all should too. I’m sick of self-described leftists backstabing me and every other minority group they pretend to care about because they’re mad about the 2016 election. I’m a trans, atheist, Jew. I’m close enough to the death camps for my liking thanks. You don’t have to like the Democrats, I don’t, but we do need to vote for them.
I refuse to go quietly. I refuse to tolerate memes that shrug at my right to exist and throw fuel to the fire in the hopes that the fascists kill everyone faster. That’s not a real political position. It’s black pilled bullshit and it can fuck off.
Hope that helps people stop tolerating this bullshit going forward.
Not true. It can be reformed the same way the republican party was deformed. By gutting it from the inside out and replacing all the dead weight.
Liberals are so fiesty these days. Like a crab in steam.
Ship’s sailed. Dems are done. Good riddance.
This is a right-wing troll talking point. Don’t listen to it.
Go to the Democratic primaries and move the party left. And then, no matter who gets the nomination, vote Dem in the general election. This is exactly what the nazis did to move the GOP to the right and it worked great for them, and it’s something we can emulate.
Yeah, not listening to this defeatist garbage. The Democratic party has been changed before. It will be changed again. The party is not defined by some monolithic ideology. We need massive electoral reform in the US to ensure elections are actually fair. First past the post is problematic. House and Senate functions are problematic. We need a solution to the two party problem, but until then, our vehicle is the Democratic party. Best to make it do what we want it to rather than just give up because “they’re corporatists”.
Yeah, not listening to this defeatist garbage.
Defeatism is thinking the only option you have is playing by the rules the bourgeoisie instated, not “stop believing in a corrupt party”
Unlike you, we believe in multiple options. We’re trying to move the Dems to the left AND pushing for electoral reform AND planning an armed communist revolution.
And you’re just whining
no matter who gets the nomination, vote Dem in the general election
Its never worked before, but lets just try that again.
Preach!
This is a right-wing troll talking point. Don’t listen to it. This is a far left anarchist talking point
Okay, one still should vote for a Democrat president. Because why would you vote for a more hostile government? Unless of course you want everything go-to shit but you should lead with your intention.
You claim to be a socialist in your other posts but you sure sound like a DNC centrist all the time.
I see you’re the one that responded with a page of why Dems suck when I said the Dems wield power differently but not against Capitalism. Maybe you live in a part of the world where there is no material difference between the two parties but that is not the lived reality for myself or my neighbors. This is not a centrist saying “well actually the Dems don’t suck as much as you say”, it is a Marxist saying you cannot build a coalition while ignoring the material conditions people are experiencing.
Okay, one still should vote for a Democrat president.
LOL, the last Democratic nominee saw tens of millions of voters saying ‘hey, we’d like to be able to afford food and rent’, and their response was ‘just be joyful about how poor you are’.
If Dems want votes, they need to do more than make promises.
She campaigned on fairly substantial changes, such as $25k downpayment assistance, $10k tax credit to first-time home buyers, and a lot of other housing reforms and subsidies. Not that I particularly liked her, but she did campaign on that kind of stuff (which people/media mostly ignored, IIRC).
Not that I particularly liked her, but she did campaign on that kind of stuff (which people/media mostly ignored, IIRC).
That’ll happen when your record and that of your predecessors shows that your promises are worthless.
Also she probably shouldn’t have spent three months telling people to be joyful about how poor they were before dreaming up her policy positions.
Biden and Obama were also pretty good on these issues.
Biden heralded the American Rescue Plan which set aside billions for housing, and also oversaw housing assistance given to 8 Million renters and 500k homeowners.
Obama Stimulus was so much that Republicans have been screeching about the federal deficit to this day.
Dems don’t want votes though, they are a fundraising organization.
If Dems got votes, they might win, and then their corporate donors would be very upset
Great way to logic. Let me try…
You cannot reform the United States of America because at it’s core it is a capitalist and imperialist country that will always put corporate interests over human interests.
Oh shit, now the whole project is hopeless. Let me try again.
You cannot reform humanity because at it’s core it is selfish and self-serving.
I guess we are all fucked. Or maybe we grow the fuck up and deal with the reality of what’s in front of us and the work involved in making things better. If we can’t reform the Democrats, then we have no chance in hell of shepherding a new party from nothing to national powerhouse without losing it to the same corrupting forces that hold the Democrats. Never-mind the realities of what it would take to take over the country with a third party in a first past the post system.
Let me borrow a quote (paraphrase) from Rumsfeld: You build a society with the people you have, not the people you wish you had or may have at some future time
(Feel free to credit that directly to Rumsfeld. It’d piss him off.)
All nations are peopled with selfish and self-serving apes. We’ve always depended on sociological tricks to get them to function within the social contract, but it does mean those with more power tend to try to hoard it, and the mechanisms we used to curb that were all captured and broken.
We can build a better society, but it will mean either violently seizing the property of those in power, or threatening them with an even greater violence that could ruin all they value. General strikes have been effective sometimes in Europe, but it’s think-outside-the-box time.
Since we don’t have a salted hydrogen bomb, I got nothing personally, but I haven’t stopped thinking about it.
You cannot reform the United States of America because at it’s core it is a capitalist and imperialist country that will always put corporate interests over human interests.
I mean, did you ever reform the USA to be anything but that?
Yes, the USA is a capitalist and imperialist country at its core. Half the planet wants it dead, the other half look at it with disdain. Nothing short of going back to the drawing board will save a country built on genocide, land theft and staging coups and waging wars worldwide
Be a lot easier to overthrow the USA if they’re run by the meek and useless Democrats than the guy who turned ICE into the biggest law enforcement agency
While the new progressive “MAGA” forms, we have to get MAGA/GOP out. Look to the good Dem primaries and pick the more progressive Bernie Sanders types.
MAGA needs to go though, if most of the country turns on the GOP, could probably have enough seats to impeach and remove Trump. Then do the same to Vance, then a dem speaker of the house could take over.
So let me guess. The solution is to vote for a 3rd party that has absolutely no presence in our federal government at all, hoping that magically one of their reps can become president and save the country, despite having absolutely no support within the federal government, at all? And we’ll just all agree to pretend like they won’t become susceptible to corporate interests as well so they can actually accrue enough money to start winning elections.
Ok, so enough of that stupid bullshit. Let’s hop on back to reality.
In reality, we have to vote Democrat for the time being because WE JUST FOUND OUT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENS IF WE DON’T. Meanwhile, we hope that a 3rd party can get off its fucking ass and start winning local/state elections so they can start getting MORE THAN ZERO representatives in the House and Senate, so that someday they can actually have a real shot at running a candidate for president.
This meme is grade school level dogshit. It only serves to split the vote more on 3rd party candidates that can’t win and ensure Republican control of our government for even longer. We don’t live in fantasy land. 3rd parties can’t recite magical incantations and gain control of our federal government. There’s a really fucking long process for a road to the presidency for a 3rd party, and in the meantime, we fucking vote Democrat because HAVE WE FUCKING LEARNED NOTHING?
The crux of the issue is that we voted for Democrats “for the time being” multiple times over the past 50 years, and this is still what fucking happened. But, ignoring that, the big idea here to save our hides is that a Democrat has to win every single election from now until the sun goes super-nova? That seems more than a little unrealistic.
I voted for Kamala Harris in 2024 and now we have concentration camps! I’m not making that mistake again, I’ll vote for Trump next time /s
No, at the moment, we have to vote defensively. But we had to vote defensively in 2000 and couldn’t and it got us here.
And to be fair there’s a trillion-dollar far-right propaganda machine that sucks up the majority of viewership. So yes, in fact, a lot of influence is assuring we’ve learned nothing and will continue to do so until our own necks are in the mire.
It may be too late now. But it may have been too late in 2016. It may have been too late in 2000.
Fascist autocratic dissolution of the society is not the only great filter we are facing. An overwhelming amount of work must me done to reverse the FUBAR, and the people are not yet ready for it. Nor are they ready for the horrors of war, famine and pestilence (transmissible diseases like measles), all whose hounds have vaulted their slips.
WE JUST FOUND OUT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENS IF WE DON’T.
No, you just found out what happens when your only choices are either nazis or capitalistic corrupt “let’s debate nazis” centrists
And what’s your plan to make it so those aren’t our only options? Split the vote on a third party? Give up? Hope we can build a revolution while ICE are disappearing us? Your solutions suck.
somebody said it nicely yesterday in a lemmy comment:
we need to capture the dems and turn them into a socialist party,
just like the fascists captured the reps and turned them into a nazi partyBingo.
I think it can be ship of theseus’d, just replace all the key people in the party and keep the name.
FDR was a democrat, if it could go from that to what it is now, it can be turned back into a socialist party.
Parties can absolutely change with enough pressure.
I’ve been alive long enough to watch the Republican party almost completely change. Yeah, they were always stupid assholes. But they were not even close to THIS crazy and traitorous. Their base changed them. The liberal base can change the Democrat party.
The Democrat party is ESTABLISHED. No 3rd party is even remotely close to being established. It is not the time yet to vote for a 3rd party and won’t be until a 3rd party actually gets serious and starts winning smaller elections.
I think it can be ship of theseus’d, just replace all the key people in the party and keep the name.
At this point it’s easier to just nuke it
What does that look like in practice, and what BS are you going to make up to differentiate it from giving up?
Lets drop the nukes on humanity, start over.
This is GOP propaganda
It’s Democrat propaganda too. OP is helping the dems lose, just like they want
Absolutely.
