Question : didn’t the supreme court just say that lower level judges can’t block him? Which would mean that appeal judges can? So this question is far from settled?
Moron is literally BEGGING
If you end birthright citizenship, then nobody gets to be a citizen by birth. If you can’t be a citizen by birth, the only way to become a citizen is naturalization. If the only citizens are naturalized people, the country is 100% immigrants.
It’s just the title, it even says in the article he would move forward with trying to redefine the 14th amendment. Basically it’ll be if your parents are citizens, and your born here, you’ll be a citizen. (My best guess)
If the only citizens are naturalized people, the country is 100% immigrants.
What do they think America is founded on?
A mix of first generation immigrants, 2nd generation, 3rd generation, 4th generation, a few remaining natives.
100% first generation immigrants would be a major shift.
And if immigrants don’t need due process and can be sent to concentration camps then it’s really easy to make anyone disappear
If immigrants don’t get due process, then nobody gets due process.
You could arrest Bill Clinton and claim he’s an immigrant. If that means he doesn’t get due process, he can never prove he’s not an immigrant, and so he’s stuck in Guantanamo forever.
Boston witch hunt all over again.
That’s pretty much the plan imo
So… He’s goin to deport Baron Trump then, right?
I’m all for deporting all of the Trumps, but technically he has citizenship because of his terrible father, regardless of birth location or his mother’s citizenship status.
Where in the Constitution do we spell out that citizenship is granted to a child on the basis of the status of the father, regardless of birth location or their mother’s status?
No we should deport the Trumps. I’m sure we can find some minor error or omission in his father’s old citizenship application. Do what they’re doing - go back up the family tree, declare their ancestor’s citizenship fraudulent, and deport their whole rotten family tree.
On unrelated news, what would happen if people stopped paying federal taxes?
I.e., if all of california, or blue states in general, stopped paying federal taxes simultaneously, what would realistically be the outcome?
How would it affect the US? How would it affect the states?
And: Is there a proper place to discuss ideas such as this one?
My (very rough) understanding is that people pay income taxes to the federal tax agency directly. From there, the central US government sends parts of it back to the states, to do things with it such as public services.
Blue states are more economically heavy than red states. They pay in more than they get out. If they stop paying taxes, the US suffers but they get to keep a larger share to themselves? My understanding is very rough, it’s just a rough idea.
It could weaken Trump’s government?
To get a meaningful amount of people to withhold their taxes from the Fed you’d probably need to get enough people working and acting together that you’d already have been able to elect progressive politicians to begin with.
Last time shit got real bad economically we had general strikes, the building of unions, trust and monopoly regulation, etc.
He is much closer to his stated goal
The power to deport any natural Born Citizen on demand for no reason at all
He has stated he wants… Needs this
On Exactly why he has been vague
That means him first motherfucker because Trump is a birthright citizen. His grandfather was an immigrant.
Not like me is like 12 generations removed but still immigrant. Except on my mother’s side that native American. But guess Trump will deport them too, because if you got technical they also are immigrants.
So like every country in Europe, got it.
Of all the things European countries do, that’s the one you like?
Europe isn’t the Americas. Nearly every country in the Americas has birthright citizenship. Your nation is an outlier in the Western Hemisphere if it doesn’t have birthright citizenship. In any country composed of large settler populations, birthright citizenship is essential to preventing the formation of a slave caste. If you lack it, you inevitably end up with multi-generational illegal immigrant communities, which end up forming a slave caste of exploitable labor.
I for one oppose the creation of a slave caste, so I am in favor of birthright citizenship.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but wouldn’t one way to solve that problem be to remove folks who aren’t here legally? I don’t like Trump or his policies, but what he’s doing, as horrible as it is, seems to rectify the situation of having a slave caste. In fact, I see articles posted here all the time talking about how they can’t find people to work farms. It’s obviously created other problems, but they’re kind of irrelevant for this discussion.
I don’t know how the US can’t function the same way as a European nation just because it’s geographically across an ocean. I do agree with you that it shakes out that way, but I’m not sure why where the US is plays a role. How long does the US need to wait to not be composed of large settler populations?
Honest question here too because I appreciate your viewpoint, and I just know there’s a lot of folks across the pond who are quick to say America bad, and then America adjusts it’s tack to perform the same way as those countries, and I hear no, not like that.
What you’re apparently too blind to see is that Trump doesn’t deport illegal immigrants - he MAKES illegal immigrants. He’s turning legal immigrants into illegal immigrants by revoking their immigration status. And he wants to do the same to born US citizens.
And you can try to breeze away the problems of lacking birthright citizenship with your hypothetical, but it’s just that, a hypothetical. Meanwhile, in actual history, when you don’t have something like birthright citizenship, you DO end up with a multigenerational slave caste. You can never remove everyone as business interests don’t actually want the undocumented population removed. They just want them in hiding and in fear so they can exploit their labor.
The US also has along history of not granting full citizenship to large swathes of its population. We had widespread chattel slavery. We had Jim Crow. We still have prison slavery. We have a long history of our worst people trying to deliberately engineer a class of people who don’t fully count as human and can thus become cheap exploitable labor. That’s why we need a hard rule that says, “fuck you, you asshat politician. Everyone born here is a citizen, full stop.”
Europe is hardly a model to emulate. Many European countries have just the type of slave caste I’m talking about - unassimilated groups of immigrants that have been there for generations yet still lack citizenship.
If you were born here, you deserve to be a citizen. Your very physical being is formed from the air, the water, and the food of this land. Anyone born in America is an American, and any US politician who refuses this truth deserves to be hanged for treason against the Republic. Trump literally deserves to be hanged for this. That is not an exaggeration or hyperbole. He literally deserves to die for this. In a just world, he would be tried and executed for his betrayal of this fundamental American value. He has committed treason against the Republic.
So your saying you would support if they updated it to, everyone who is here as of Jan 1st, 2026 (or whenever it passed) is legally a citizen whether or not they were in the naturalization process, and only their decendents can get birthright citizenships. (And all future citizens who get naturalized by sponsorship)
I could be fine with that IF every workplace is mandated to sponsor every person they hire on a work visa. If they are caught hiding that they hired a worker the company is dissolved and the owners/executives get life in prison. All student Visa’s allowed a fast tract acceptance to a work visa while attending school or a period of forebearance while it processes if applied for within 90 days of leaving the educational institution.
Asylum applications need to be updated to NOT require the person to be on U.S. soil and made accessible online. If a person applies for asylum and any personal information down to just giving a name is leaked by any member of our government or institutions set to minotor/run those applications, the penalty is life in prison.
Wait … Doesn’t “citizenship” mean where you’re born?
It’s either where you’re born or where you live. Which is it?
Wtf even is citizenship then?
“I’m from Ireland” is synonymous with “I’m Irish”… Right?
So if you’re born in America, wouldn’t you… Be American?
If he takes that away, you aren’t just magically from nowhere, you’re still American.
This is stupid and makes no sense, it’s all just classism and racism. I hate everything.
You’ve just given it ten times more thought than the Trump team has.
Doesn’t “citizenship” mean where you’re born?
Only in the new world continents. In Africa, Europe, and Asia it normally means what country your parents and grandparents are from, unless someone in the chain naturalises to a different country.
Yup, and when you don’t have any citizenship, you’re stateless. It causes a lot of issues internationally, because a stateless person can’t have a passport, can’t immigrate, can’t hold a legal job because they can’t get a work visa without a passport, etc… Notably, the US is one of the few countries that refused to sign on with the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. Basically, the convention would prevent a country from revoking someone’s citizenship if they don’t have a valid claim elsewhere. And the US refused to sign.
Its the same as the election between Obama and McCain, in ways a lot of people dont realize.
Obama, by virtue of having a non-traditional name and not being white, was hounded by birthers despite being born an American citizen clear as day with absolutely no question about it.
McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone the year before people born in the canal zone were granted citizenship at birth. Arguably he was not a citizen at birth under the definitional requirements of the constitution to be president. He was naturalized as a citizen retroactively.
Palin is part native, and was pretty heavily involved with Alaska Native movements that rejected US sovereignty and thereby rejected claims to citizenship. But no one talked about that either because shes also largely seen as just being a white American.
And yet Obama, who was American thru and thru from birth without question, never was involved with Hawaiian sovereignty movements, is the one whos citizenship was questioned.
“White makes right” is the rule of law to these people
Ted Cruz ran in the Republican presidential primary despite being an Albertan
Sounds about white.
Most people are citizens of where they also live and give birth so this distinction doesn’t come up in most cases. But for children born to immigrants or travelers it does.
Citizenship can either be assigned by where you were born, or who you were born to.
Birthright citizenship, as we use the term in the US, is mostly a new world invention. In nearly all countries in the americas, any children born here are citizens without exception. No matter the parents, no matter the circumstances.
In the old world, most countries require a parent to be a citizen in order for the child to also be a citizen.
Generally if an american couple gives birth in Europe, the child will just be american, despite where they were born. If a European couple gives birth in any of the americas, their child will be a citizen of the americas, despite anything else
You operate under the assumption that this is a public service. That would make no sense.
But if the assumption is them accumulating more power, then it makes perfect sense.
To be honest I get more mad at people being surprised by their actions. At this point it is so obvious what is happening and why. How can anyone be surprised by any of this?
“Why does this rabid dog bites? How does this make for a better world?”
It is a rabid dog, how could you ever expect something positive to begin with? Put it down already. You don’t argue with crazy.
rabbit dog
Furthermore aren’t, at least some of, his kids from ? The youngest psychopath is definitely of imported genetics, does that mean the next oppositional president (ha, like Fatboy is ever going to let go of all that power now he’s king of the us) could kick all tRUMPs offspring out?
At what point does everyone say “if he’s not following the law, then neither should we”?
At the very least, I would like to see every Democratic lawmaker calling for the open violation of Supreme Court rulings. They are a fundamentally illegitimate institutions. Their opinions should be given less respect than the opinions of a shit-covered hobo holding an “the end is near” sign by the side of the road.
That point was sometime around the first term but the “wE aRe NOt thERe Yet” crowd keeps moving the goal post
I came to that conclusion when he won the election despite his numerous crimes.
I break laws all the time now. They have no meaning. It’s like the wild west now
As long as it doesn’t immediately result in you dead or in jail.
At what point are you willing to sacrifice your life for your cause?
Guilty. I’ve stolen 2 elections already and dogwhistled so much
Can you please just give them back? We’ve been looking for them literally everywhere
Also, those whistles give me a headache
so it was YOU!!
I’m ready if you are
Lest we forget:
Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Pretty hard to argue that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside” doesn’t mean what it clearly states. It’s not even in legalese. The fact that this wasn’t laughed out of court says everything.
I saw a person trying to all caps “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” screaming that this specific clause somehow is the piece that excludes birthright citizenship because something something loyalty to other countries?
So like …kids of illegal aliens are … sovereign citizens?
I mean, the 2nd amendment is clearly only about militias, but you can see how that went.
States need to criminalize the behavior of ICE officers and start arresting them en masse. ICE agents will be free to challenge their imprisonment individually.
That’s what the Constitution says, and Trump now has nothing that can legally stop him from doing it.
Which means the Constitution is dead letter.
That goes both ways, and states need to start acting on it. They need to start passing a flurry of laws criminalizing ICE tactics. Pass laws making it a felony to:
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Conduct law enforcement while masked
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To search homes without a warrant
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To enter various protected locations for law enforcement purposes when there isn’t an immediate threat.
They need to take cues from the anti-abortion playbook. Pass a law requiring all immigration detainees be transported in limousines. Require ICE to old prisoners in five star hotels. Require immigration officers to have at least two doctoral degrees. Make it a felony to do immigration enforcement without doing these things. Just start writing dozens of crazy laws criminalizing every aspect of ICE’s operations. Then let the individual ICE agents try and challenge them individually.
Better than that remove all immunity from law enforcement officers if…
They do not have a signed judicial warrant.
They do not verbally and visually identify themselves and the branch or organization they work for.
Without those two things, they cannot be verified as law enforcement acting in official capacity, and they should be treated as regular civilians. If a bunch of regular Joes jump out of a can and try to black bag you, you should have the right to defend yourself with lethal force.
I would go even further. A masked individual tries to abduct people? It’s perfectly legal for anyone to shoot them dead right on the spot. Law enforcement who dress like human traffickers should be put in the ground like human traffickers.
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They haven’t decided on the legality of it yet. They just decided that courts cannot issue universal injunctions. They can only stop it at a case by case level for those who are suing. If they decide it’s unconstitutional, then it’ll have to stop nationally, but a lot of damage can be done before then. I think they’ll decide in October…
I’m looking forward to fucktons of individual suits absolutely slamming the courts every time an EO is issued. crowdfund the filing fees. turn petitions into copypasta. DDoS the Court system. they literally asked for this.
It is just a fucking piece of paper.
If the judges and politicians and police don’t care and no one else can do anything then it means nothing.
It is this or bloody revolution and that would lead to the US being invaded by multiple other countries and shit getting worse and worse.
North Korea of America is where we are now.
Uggh. I can work out whether to upvote you for the accurate summary of the source of law & state power or downvote you for the utter idiocy of the invasion statement.
Russia can’t - they’re struggling to take over a country a fifth their size and have burnt through their Soviet stockpiles.
UK & EU certainly won’t invade, at most they’d send a peacekeeping force to protect civilians at a UN request (UN probably wouldnt pass it)
Canada will be stretched just keeping fighting out of its borders.
Mexico might just on principle (payback’s a bitch) but has bugger all capacity.
Same for South American Asian and African countries.
That leaves China, and if you think the Chinese are stupid enough to insert themselves in your civil war and create a sole enemy for both sides to fight you have zero understanding of the Chinese strategy.
The Chinese will wait for you all to decimate the country and each other, then come in and buy up the bits they want. Oh and invade Taiwan while y’all are busy destroying your country.
Putin’s plan to destroy the US has worked magnificently.
Canada will be stretched just keeping fighting out of its borders.
Canada just needs to send one guy over to say “you should be our eleventh province” and most of New England will say “yes please, I’m sick of whatever shit the regressives are doing now”
Mexico might just on principle (payback’s a bitch) but has bugger all capacity.
More accurately, we literally can’t be bothered. Our state of affairs doesn’t allow for a war, and by that, I mean that a huge national protest would ensue, and many politicians would strike it down for many reasons. Nobody here is interested, and after fighting narcos for so long, we’d rather have peace.
It is this or bloody revolution and that would lead to the US being invaded by multiple other countries and shit getting worse and worse.
No other nations are going to be invading the US, let alone multiple of them. They don’t have the logistics for it.
Why bother? The US is doing just fine destroying itself.
Other nations wouldn’t invade. But in the event of a civil war, you can be certain they would be sending in plenty of heavy weaponry.
Or the desire, who the hell would want to try a hostile occupation of the US ?
who the hell would want to try a hostile occupation of the US ?
This administration, it seems.
That’s technically not what they ruled on
The problem is and has always been “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof”
People have been twisting that to mean that anyone that isn’t born to American citizen parents means that you are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.
Funny because that sounds to me like the "illegals"can’t be illegal then. Sounds like they’re not subject to the law anymore.
Yeah, this is the thing that’s ignored because it would let the whole narrative collapse.
Either you can’t deport them because they’re American citizens, or you can’t deport them because they’re not subject to your laws anyway. But in the end, this would just lead to (more) unlawful / illegal deportations.
No state shall…but the feds can?
He controls the feds. He’s certainly not stopping himself.
This is the final nail in the coffin of the Constitution. As a lawyer for the federal government, I need everyone to know that this officially marks the end of United States rule of law. Protect yourselves, and godspeed.
I’m coping so hard by hoping that we swing very hard to the left, if only just so that these cynical, fossilized assholes live to see their bullshit rulings used against them.
Billionaires and politicians. No one else matters. Don’t be distracted by the broke Nazis at ICE. The true threat numbers in the hundreds.
This is definitely worrisome.
But is it the end of the Constitution quite yet?
The Supreme Court hasn’t weighed in on the executive order trying to negate birthright citizenship, they said that lower courts couldn’t block EO’s at a national level.
Implicitly, their not commenting on the EO feels like they’ll let it stand when the case arrives, if they choose to hear it. Then I’d say the US Constitution is toast.
I’m an engineer, not a lawyer. I’d love to hear what someone more knowledgeable about this thinks.
They ended the ability of the Judiciary to check the Executive. That’s the very foundation of the government, set out in the Constitution: https://constitution.findlaw.com/article1/annotation01.html
So yeah, it’s the final nail in the coffin of the Constitution.
I’m not happy about this either, but let’s just make sure we’re all on the same page here:
They ended the ability of the Judiciary to check the Executive.
No, they ended the ability of the lower courts to check the executive nationwide. The supreme court can still check the executive (and the US Court of Appeals?).
Now I’m trying to figure out if the lower courts can still check the executive, but only in their respective areas, or if they can make a decision, but it has to be confirmed by (at least?) the court of appeals.
From what I’m reading here: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/06/supreme-court-sides-with-trump-administration-on-nationwide-injunctions-in-birthright-citizenship-case/
It looks like a lower court can still request to check the executive, but the higher courts will need to grant it. At least according to Kavanaugh’s opinion:
the courts of appeals and the Supreme Court will inevitably weigh in on district court decisions granting or denying requests for preliminary injunctions.
Yes, let’s make sure we’re on the same page. You’re talking about theory, I’m talking about practice - which, in theory, are the same. In practice, however…
Oh, in practice it’s been dead for decades.
There isn’t going to be a single moment where the constitution stops existing. It’s not like a light switch. It’s a rapid erosion, like the start of a landslide, and the snow is already moving
Yes it is. Trump can effectively ignore any constitutional amendment for more than long enough to start sending people to concentration camps. This also probably isn’t the end of it, as I doubt the justices will be more willing to stand up to him in the future once he’s consolidated power further.
So literally what happened here is Trump said, “I want to violate the Constitution” and the Supreme Court said, " Okay — go ahead."
And that’s it for the rule of law in the US.
All that’s left now is to tally the mass murders along the way to the inevitable collapse of the US, and to hope that our descendents can build something better out of the rubble.
That’s not literally what happened at all. Trump said, “I want to violate the constitution and issued an order”. Then states cities and organizations sued across three cases and courts issued universal injunctions. Trump said “wah! Help me puppet kourt!” Then the Supreme Court was like, “be still mein führer. We will not allow these injunctions to apply to the entire nation. Only to those who have sued.”
They gave him second base. Let’s see if they go all the way for Don Don.
I’m not a USer so correct me if wrong here, but is the implication then that something can be considered constitutional in one state but not in another? How does that work?
It doesn’t. The ruling makes little sense and is just showing that playing the game with absolutely no ethics works very well.
No. The core issue has not been decided. When courts in one state rule differently from courts in another, it goes up to federal court. When federal courts in different circuits rule differently, it goes up to SCOTUS. This issue isn’t at that point just yet.
The US collapsing is going to absolutely affect the rest of the world. This is very VERY bad.
This title isn’t true. The court has not “given the OK”
This is just cope. They did give the OK. They didn’t technically say he could revoke birthright citizenship, but they removed the ability for people to effectively challenge the revocation of their citizenship. If you can’t actually exercise your rights, then your rights don’t exist.
But keep huffing the copium.
Right, they only said “nobody can stop you from doing illegal things.”
Completely different.
It was about whether or not a federal court can issue a nationwide injunction.
The verdict has much more to do with active cases of deportees suing the US than it does to do with birthright citizenship.
This is technically true, but it’s also wrong.
Yes, they didn’t technically rule on birthright citizenship, but it doesn’t matter. Without national injunctions, your right to birthright citizenship doesn’t actually exist as a practical matter.
By the time you can file your individual case challenging the revocation of your citizenship, you’ll already be in an ICE concentration camp. And you don’t have a right to an attorney during immigration proceedings.
The supreme court did give the ok saying that it comes down to states and individuals to stop it.
That isn’t true. That is what sensationalist headlines said the verdict was. The verdict had nothing to do with birthright citizenship.
We desperately need media literacy training as a species.
Edit: go no further. There is nothing of value beyond this point. You’re welcome.
It is true. It’s not a ruling on birthright citizenship but it does stop the injunction against it.
Edit to explain because I doubt you grasp: Without the injunction he’s free to act on a birthright citizenship ban unless sued by individuals or states on the behalf of said individuals. So over 20 states have no limit to this executive order pausing the deportation of people born in the US because they haven’t sued the federal government for breaking the 14th amendment.
If anything this is far worse than just birthright citizenship because Trump can write executive orders far faster than lawsuits can be brought against the administration and lower federal courts can’t file injunctions against the administration, states or individuals have to sue.
Again: The supreme court did give the ok, saying that it comes down to states and individuals to stop it because it removed the lower courts’ ability to file injunctions.
Because you doubt I’ll grasp… Why?
You’re the one who ate up the sensationalistic news headlines and regurgitated them like a good little boy?
I’m not going to read the content of your response because you open with inflammatory bullshit. Grow up.
Tagged as “fucking douche.”
Ohh your feelings hurt because everyone downvoted you. Cool, take it out on me. That’s the Hallmark of someone to take seriously in conversation.
Start media literacy training by never citing YouTube videos as sources. It’s far better to learn to read.
The word for learning to read books is literacy.
I was talking specifically about learning to read things that are not books.
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But don’t you see? By losing, we sent a message to the Democratic Party leadership and now they’re totally moving left!
thier response is to moving right
Time for guillotines
all those cuomo endorsements really show they’re willing to listen
At least your party didn’t have to stop selling weapons for genocide.
This is fucking Stephen Miller’s Nazi wet dream
