I always thought the pledge of allegiance stood out as a bit of a strange brainwashing exercise for the free and fair democracy the United States seeks to be. In fact IMO the nationalism it represents and instils in Americans opened the door to MAGA.
I’m from a country which was under a Fascist dictatorship until 50 years ago - Portugal - and even though the place was a total shithole (so poor that it got Food Aid), the regime was massivelly into pushing Nationalism.
The Far-Right are usually the ones who love Nationalism (there really are no greater flag-shaggers than the Fascist Far-Right) and Militarism.
So, at least for me, things such as a Pledge Of Alliegance in schools in the US always sounded like the kind of brainwashing of children done in Fascist countries - maybe not as far as an organised regime Youth movement (like the “Hitler Youth” or the Portuguese “Mocidade Portuguesa”), but certainly partly in that direction.
America has always had a contradiction at it’s heart: It purports to represent high minded ideas about freedom, egalitarianism, peace, democracy, secular enlightenment ideals, etc… while simultaneously being none of those things for most of it’s history. A country built on genocide and slavery, a government that excluded nearly everyone from participating in it, extreme inequality, a war every few years, laws based on religious sentiments of the majority, etc…
That the story it tells itself is so at odds with it’s actual identity is a testament to the power of propaganda and self-delusion. I think part of how people try to resolve this contradiction is by refocusing the story to be about steady progress: We may not have always lived up to our ideals, but that was in the past, we learned from them, and got better, as they ignore the problems of today and even actively resist changes that they would applaud if they read it in a history book or saw it in a documentary.
It’s not wholly unique in this kind of narrative self-delusion, but I think America’s relative lack of longer term history and ethnic identity makes the story a more central part of it’s identity. The pledge is one part of this.
What makes American brainwashing somewhat unique is that it includes the notion of individuality, originality, free speech and personal uniqueness, whilst successfully managing to railroad all of those things within a set of acceptable parameters.
You’re encouraged to speak freely as long as you’re not communist or anti-American, terms which are then defined so broadly as to cover a whole world of reasonable opinions.
It’s not wholly unique in this kind of narrative self-delusion, but I think America’s relative lack of longer term history and ethnic identity makes the story a more central part of it’s identity. The pledge is one part of this.
This is exactly why the Republicans have been fighting so hard to whitewash history in our schools, they want people to continue to be unquestioningly loyal to the government, and believe the propaganda. You would think all the crackers in the South who want the Confederacy to ‘rise again’ would be against it, but it benefits them because it allows them to make slavery seem like it wasn’t so bad actually.
I know I’m in the minority, but I actually like the pledge, even if it’s reminiscent of authoritarianism (and I strongly believe it should be optional). But that’s because my interpretation was always “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA, and to the [ideals and values of the] republic for which it stands.” I viewed it as an affirmation of the commitment by myself to the “liberty and justice for all” we wanted, not as a statement of fact that no matter what the current leadership does, you should be loyal.
All that being said, I could see a contribution of the pledge to an environment of the nationalism or jingoism that led to MAGA. I just don’t blame the pledge; I blame the leaders, politicians, media personalities, and individuals that drove MAGA to become mainstream.
The biggest problem is that kids are reciting it without understanding the words they’re saying or the concepts they convey. When I was a little kid I was just repeating the syllables I was given, with no real idea about what it all meant*. Nobody should take any pledge until they can clearly explain what it means and what it means to them. And obviously a pledge should always be voluntary.
*Same as forcing a kid to go through the sacraments but I digress.
We actually had civics as part of our curriculum from first grade. I am Gen X. We had lessons in first grade about the meaning of the words. I grew up in an agricultural state and civics lessons were part of state mandated curriculum. They had a unit around election day, explaining what the lawn signs were about.
The lessons were very neutral. I mean teachers are heavily Democratic leaning and a conservative state mandated the curriculum. So they just talked about processes of democracy.
I really don’t think mandated civics education is a bad idea, really. I see many folks who share in the pain of wokeness, but feel totally helpless to act effectively because the entire apparatus of our democracy has not been made clear to them. Now that the apparatus is breaking, it’s hard to work together to fix it.
I don’t think most kids would pick up on that kind of nuance (or even most adults), but I agree there’s a valid interpretation that you’re pledging allegience to the Constitution – the Republic – and thus “indivisibility, liberty, and justice”. That is: you remain allegiant to the Constitution. But the current pledge has so much wrong with it that it’s cult-like.
Obviously get “under God” the hell out of there. Cold War-era reactionary trash.
There’s no reason to assume from the literal text that what I said is true. Why not just focus on the principles?
It’s a waste of time for kids to recite a dumb pledge they barely understand; granted they can’t force you and a lot of schools IIRC don’t do that anymore.
Even if the interpretation is true, why should this specific system of government be so glorified?
Get it the fuck out of there. It was introduced 100 years after the formation of the US by a Civil War officer as propaganda for children – probably paranoid out of his fucking mind after the South seceded. There’s no reason kids can’t learn to think for themselves when they’re ready to actually understand these ideas.
the way i see it, is that a nation needs some unifying factor, and i much rather it be some positive ideals than the fact that people are just born nearby or have the same ethnicity. That being said, i can see how it can easily be used to drive up nationalism, so i am not fully sure that the way it is, being forced to kids, is the best way
That’s because it’s very strange. Most of the rest of the world thinks we are insane for it We only think of it as ‘a bit strange’ because we were brainwashed into doing it as children.
Yeah, I was incredulous when I first heard of the pledge being recited in schools. I couldn’t believe how often it was recited or how common the practice was. Surely it would be only a couple of times a year like the anthem was for me, I thought. Or only nationalistic private schools would do do it at the frequency I was told about.
I always thought the pledge of allegiance stood out as a bit of a strange brainwashing exercise for the free and fair democracy the United States seeks to be. In fact IMO the nationalism it represents and instils in Americans opened the door to MAGA.
It’s exceptionally Huxleyian.
I’m from a country which was under a Fascist dictatorship until 50 years ago - Portugal - and even though the place was a total shithole (so poor that it got Food Aid), the regime was massivelly into pushing Nationalism.
The Far-Right are usually the ones who love Nationalism (there really are no greater flag-shaggers than the Fascist Far-Right) and Militarism.
So, at least for me, things such as a Pledge Of Alliegance in schools in the US always sounded like the kind of brainwashing of children done in Fascist countries - maybe not as far as an organised regime Youth movement (like the “Hitler Youth” or the Portuguese “Mocidade Portuguesa”), but certainly partly in that direction.
America has always had a contradiction at it’s heart: It purports to represent high minded ideas about freedom, egalitarianism, peace, democracy, secular enlightenment ideals, etc… while simultaneously being none of those things for most of it’s history. A country built on genocide and slavery, a government that excluded nearly everyone from participating in it, extreme inequality, a war every few years, laws based on religious sentiments of the majority, etc…
That the story it tells itself is so at odds with it’s actual identity is a testament to the power of propaganda and self-delusion. I think part of how people try to resolve this contradiction is by refocusing the story to be about steady progress: We may not have always lived up to our ideals, but that was in the past, we learned from them, and got better, as they ignore the problems of today and even actively resist changes that they would applaud if they read it in a history book or saw it in a documentary.
It’s not wholly unique in this kind of narrative self-delusion, but I think America’s relative lack of longer term history and ethnic identity makes the story a more central part of it’s identity. The pledge is one part of this.
What makes American brainwashing somewhat unique is that it includes the notion of individuality, originality, free speech and personal uniqueness, whilst successfully managing to railroad all of those things within a set of acceptable parameters.
You’re encouraged to speak freely as long as you’re not communist or anti-American, terms which are then defined so broadly as to cover a whole world of reasonable opinions.
This is exactly why the Republicans have been fighting so hard to whitewash history in our schools, they want people to continue to be unquestioningly loyal to the government, and believe the propaganda. You would think all the crackers in the South who want the Confederacy to ‘rise again’ would be against it, but it benefits them because it allows them to make slavery seem like it wasn’t so bad actually.
I know I’m in the minority, but I actually like the pledge, even if it’s reminiscent of authoritarianism (and I strongly believe it should be optional). But that’s because my interpretation was always “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA, and to the [ideals and values of the] republic for which it stands.” I viewed it as an affirmation of the commitment by myself to the “liberty and justice for all” we wanted, not as a statement of fact that no matter what the current leadership does, you should be loyal.
All that being said, I could see a contribution of the pledge to an environment of the nationalism or jingoism that led to MAGA. I just don’t blame the pledge; I blame the leaders, politicians, media personalities, and individuals that drove MAGA to become mainstream.
The biggest problem is that kids are reciting it without understanding the words they’re saying or the concepts they convey. When I was a little kid I was just repeating the syllables I was given, with no real idea about what it all meant*. Nobody should take any pledge until they can clearly explain what it means and what it means to them. And obviously a pledge should always be voluntary.
*Same as forcing a kid to go through the sacraments but I digress.
We actually had civics as part of our curriculum from first grade. I am Gen X. We had lessons in first grade about the meaning of the words. I grew up in an agricultural state and civics lessons were part of state mandated curriculum. They had a unit around election day, explaining what the lawn signs were about.
The lessons were very neutral. I mean teachers are heavily Democratic leaning and a conservative state mandated the curriculum. So they just talked about processes of democracy.
I really don’t think mandated civics education is a bad idea, really. I see many folks who share in the pain of wokeness, but feel totally helpless to act effectively because the entire apparatus of our democracy has not been made clear to them. Now that the apparatus is breaking, it’s hard to work together to fix it.
I don’t think most kids would pick up on that kind of nuance (or even most adults), but I agree there’s a valid interpretation that you’re pledging allegience to the Constitution – the Republic – and thus “indivisibility, liberty, and justice”. That is: you remain allegiant to the Constitution. But the current pledge has so much wrong with it that it’s cult-like.
the way i see it, is that a nation needs some unifying factor, and i much rather it be some positive ideals than the fact that people are just born nearby or have the same ethnicity. That being said, i can see how it can easily be used to drive up nationalism, so i am not fully sure that the way it is, being forced to kids, is the best way
That’s because it’s very strange. Most of the rest of the world thinks we are insane for it We only think of it as ‘a bit strange’ because we were brainwashed into doing it as children.
Yeah, I was incredulous when I first heard of the pledge being recited in schools. I couldn’t believe how often it was recited or how common the practice was. Surely it would be only a couple of times a year like the anthem was for me, I thought. Or only nationalistic private schools would do do it at the frequency I was told about.