@Ek-Hou-Van-Braai German Schuko of course.
The British one. It has a switch and a fuse, and later versions have age-verification so your kids can no longer plug in your adult toys.
Had me in the first half. Well played.
And your adult toys must be licensed, of course. To protect the kids.
Its important you don’t allow them access so you need to keep them on your person in a place thats very hard to access. So hard.
Your last sentence is a double entendre?
double in your entendre.
I’m actually kinda surprised that more don’t have switches, but I suppose if you have radial rather than ring circuits you don’t have to play ‘hunt the appliance that tripped all your switches’ quite so hard
My toys are wireless…
You’ll need a broadcasting licence for that, mate.
Only if they’re charged.
P.S.: since battery cells need to be disposed properly, they are now an 18+ purchase.
Age verification on batteries?
These are the best anyway
Nah, they’re too power limited. What you really want will require a 3 phase hookup to the bedroom.
Just be careful, three phase hookups = potential hurt feelings and messy drama.
Hey now, let’s not give BSI and NESO any ideas mate.
Real
Well the answer is obviously the UK plug some of those others are just plain bad. The question is are they all made largely obsolete by USB C ? and is that the closest we are likely to get to a universal plug and socket?
All outlets should just be replaced with IEC C13. Robust and compact.
The UK plug is nice. Very robust, it connects to ground before it reaches the power line and has a switch but it’s clunky.
Still trying to figure out why Germany is listed separately from the EU.
I have a strong preference for the German and Swiss types, but I think we can all agree that Japan massively fucked up. They took the already shitty American plug and just forgot about the ground.
This is the most definitive argument that type J is superior to all others:
Image showing an arrangement of 3 swiss plugs in the same footprint as one french one
It’s obviously the one in the country I live in. All the others that I have had zero experience with are from Satan.
Type I.
ElectroBoom (Youtube) made some points about Australia’s Type I. Seems it was very hard for him to electrocute himself. Lots of breakers on the outlets. I mean he did electrocute himself, but he was always going to.
Name a more painful thing to tread on than the British plug. Bonus points if it’s incorrectly wired to be live.
There was two different ways you could have ordered this alphabetically, and you failed to do either.
In my opinion it’s Type-F
Because:
- It’s bi-directional
- It’s grounded and ungrounded plugs use the same socket
- It’s already widespread (50+ countries) source
- Your fingers can’t touch the live wire as you’re plugging in a wire
- It’s recessed
- Low footprint
- Accepts Type-C
Accepts Type-C
It took me a few seconds to realize you werent talking about shoving a USB Type C plug into there.
Bi-directional is a double-edged feature.
It means that there is no reliable way of identifying line and neutral wire, which requires more complex double switches downstream.
Also, F is unnecessarily clunky and big and hard to make a weather-proof version of because of the complex shape.
What’s the difference of C and F type?
C is mostly for low power devices
F is basically a heavy duty upgrade of C, it’s got grounding on the side and can handle 16A (ovens, heaters etc.)
Don’t you get numpties plugging F appliances into C sockets then complaining to customer service that the induction stovetop doesn’t boil water for tea fast enough?
no, because it’ll just trip fuse, and stoves are wired directly anyway
You cant the plug is thicker
Can you plug C into F?
Yeah. You cant plug f into c because f is thicker by a bit but c goes into f.
The type-C shown in the picture is also not the only form it has and maybe partly misleading, the plug usually is significantly smaller and flat, and power strips can feature multiple of those in less space.
I see a lot of your comments about F being objectively same or better compared to G. The only thing I’d throw into the mix is the socket switch feels so logical, I’m really surprised it’s not more standard.
High frequency use case: I don’t need my microwave on all the time showing me the time, so I switch it off at the socket unless I’m using it
Low frequency use case: before going on holiday I switch all the electrics off at the sockets
Socket switch isn’t really a feature of the socket itself. I’ve had schuko sockets with switches. It’s just not as common
I never understood why every appliance in the kitchen needs to display the time. lol
Why not switch off the fuse in the holiday case? More time efficient.
As the least biased swiss person. Type J (or type N, Idk) is so much better. We put three plugs on the same surface as you have 1. I am always frustrated to see how impractical your plugs are when I go to the EU
Because:
- It’s bi-directional
This is very convenient, and not a problem in 99.9% of cases, but there are some devices where it’s important to not have the hot and neutral wire swapped
What sort of devices
Solar Microinverters
why should those plug into a normal outlet regularly? wouldn’t that be a measure polarity and just leave it alone device?
Agreed. The best.
Furthermore, appliances compatible with Type F are almost always compatible with Type E as well, it’s just a matter of including both grounding mechanisms which they all do to avoid designing multiple cords.
I haven’t yet visited the UK so the only time I’ve had trouble plugging in something in Europe is in shudders Italy.
And type-E. Most EU plugs are F-E compatible, because countries go about alternating them. Spain F, France E, Germany F, Poland E. You build a plug with a hole for the E ground bolt and a cutout for the F side contacts.
Hear me out, type L, the one in the middle, is the best socket, as it has all the things you talked about, but also accepts Italian plugs.
Type L bipasso (the one on the side) instead is the most space efficient, while retaining type C compatibility and grounding. Type L plugs also have plastic bits at the end to avoid contact with live wire (like UK one).
Jawoll!
It’s bi-directional
That’s bad.
Every device produced in the past few decades doesn’t care which wire is live.
Clear, informative and solution oriented. I wish all signs were this good.
Damn homophobes…
Why? It doesn’t make any difference with AC
The actual electrical device can be designed such that it depends on exactly which direction is live and which is neutral.
Imagine a circuit loop that, as you follow along the circuit, has an AC power source, then a switch, and then the electrical appliance, leading back to the AC source it started from.
If you design the circuit so that you know for sure that the live wire goes to the switch first before the actual load, then your design ensures that if there is a fault or a short somewhere in the appliance, it won’t let the live power leak anywhere (because the whole device is only connected to the neutral line, not the hot live voltage that alternates between positive and negative voltage). It’s safer, and is less likely to damage the internals of a device. Especially if someone is going to reach inside and forgets to unplug it or cut power at the circuit breaker.
In practice tons of outlets are wired the wrong way around.
F actually has a convention for the socket, which is probably ignored even more often, but I would never trust live and neutral not to have been swapped somewhere regardless of outlet.Just forcing plug designers to consider live/neutral being randomized in a very obvious manner might be safer in the long run than working on a partially broken system where someone manufacturer might be fooled into trusting it.
Could you give an example of such a device? Seems like a bad design
A simple lamp can demonstrate.
You have both live and neutral lines in the cable, coming up to a switch, which can either open the circuit on the live line or the neutral line. Then, the lamp itself has a single light bulb as the load.
If you place the switch on the live line, then the energy of the live line stops at the switch, with only whatever lower voltage is in the neutral line to actually be connected to the light bulb and lamp assembly.
But if you place the switch on the neutral line, you’re leaving the entire lamp on the voltage of the live line, which gives the voltage more places to potentially short circuit. If you were to take a non-contact voltage detector, you’d be able to detect a live voltage in the line leading up to the bulb, even when it’s not turned on.
You generally do this with the in-wall wiring and switches, too, and make the wall switches break open the circuit on the live line, not the neutral line. It’s just a better practice overall.
And no, the neutral line is not totally grounded, so it can still pose a danger, too. But safety is exercised in layers, and putting the switch on the live line is the better practice.
That’s a lamp in theory, but do you know of any actual lamps being sold where this matters?
in the US it’s fairly common, so probably some American manufacturers would do it that way
This is an entirely theoretical problem that just doesn’t exist in practice. Just to be clear, for it to short circuit, it’s needs to find a path to ground. It can’t just “go somewhere”. Just because the line is longer didn’t make it more dangerous for it to “just exist”. There are regulations for wires, which include frankly absurd safety margins, regulations for the electrical devices that are not optional either (CE compliance for example). It just complicates this for basically no reason to have keyd outlets.
If there’s electricity reaching the bulb it would be lit no? So if I place the contact upside down, I wouldn’t be able to turn off my light?
It’s not electricity, exactly, but it is a higher voltage that is different from the average of everything around it. Electricity needs a closed loop to flow, and breaking open the loop with a switch means that no electricity flows, but the voltage of the live line goes up and down, creating an electric potential with anything that might be at a different voltage, if a conductor touches both.
it’s a bad practice to design appliance in such a way to assume that neutral will have low voltage, because in case of neutral failure in three-phase circuit you can get full voltage there, and there can be a couple of volts difference (sometimes more) between neutral and ground even in normal circumstances
it’s better to cut off both live and neutral at the same time anyway, especially if there’s no standard which is which. also, as device designer you don’t know if it’ll be used on a circuit that has neutral and phase where you think it’ll go or not. (ie british appliance used on unpolarized circuit, like type F. adapters exist)
it’s a bad practice to design appliance in such a way to assume that neutral will have low voltage, because in case of neutral failure in three-phase circuit you can get full voltage there,
Who’s using three phase in a setting where these types of plugs are used? In the US, at least, three phase circuits use very different receptacles and plugs.
The fact of the matter is that the switch has to be placed somewhere. And it’s safer to place the switch between the load and the live wire, rather than between the load and the neutral wire. Designing a system where the live and neutral can easily be known makes it easier to do the safer thing.
you don’t have to have three phase circuit to be affected by floating neutral in three-phase substation upstream. in some places in us there are 208v interphase three-phase circuits, which give 120v phase to neutral, which is distributed as a pair of wires as single-phase circuit. this is also normal way to deliver single-phase power in europe, as it’s most efficient use of conductor. (from 400v three-phase circuits) in case more power is needed than single-phase circuit can deliver, three-phase circuit is installed
if there’s switch on device, it’s 2p1t meaning both phase and neutral are switched. if it’s permanent, non-pluggable circuit, like lightning, it’s okay if only phase is switched (neutral is connected permanently)
This is entirely an US problem created by the “center tap” nonsense. Nobody else I’m aware of uses that, let alone with that other. The outlet in question (type F) I’m only aware of being in use with one phase of a there phase supply plus the neutral, or just “the” phase and neutral. Note that in the second case, even if a house or apartment only has one phase wired to it, it’s still generally part of a three phase supply, but the other phases just aren’t wired to that particular place (incredibly rare these days, but might be the case for very old homes/installations).
Now the real reason for it being safe: The neutral is required to be wired to ground at the main breaker panel. With installations newer than 2000-something, every circuit has to be GFCI protected. With even newer installations having even more granular requirements (not sure on the specifics).
Yeah, you’re probably right. I’m in over my head on this discussion.
I am reminded of my first day in an electrical engineering circuit theory class, when the professor made very, very clear that he was teaching us theory and fundamentals, and that the real world of electricity required a lot more safety built into the procedures and designs, because not everything behaves the way the undergrad textbook describes.
So I’ve learned something new. Thanks.
Some people say it does with certain devices but I’ve never had anything I’ve run into. The American outlets have been used as bi-directional in most instances. (With 2 prong). If they had a ground then you can only go in one way. But that said… Obviously a cord without a ground can still plug into an outlet that has the ground set up. If the device wants the current to go in a certain direction they use one with a slightly larger prong on one side, but if you pick up any phone charger in America, you can plug it into any outlet any direction.
If the device wants the current to go in a certain direction
That’s not how AC works
they use one with a slightly larger prong on one side,
That’s not Ground, it’s Neutral. Neutral is sometimes bonded to Ground, but they are fundamentally different things
- Yeah it’s just a potential difference, not a one directional flow really
- No one said it’s ground? The ground is on the third prong
Phone chargers are definitely not the appliance that’s going to have an issue switching things out. That’s going to be stuff that directly uses the AC power. Some older appliances or shittily designed ones can even become an electrocution hazard when switching live with neutral.
In the particular case the sign is trying to prevent it’s to keep lazy idiots from electrocuting themselves stringing up Christmas lights.
It doesn’t matter depending on whether both are live. In plenty of places, only one side is live. Switching live with neutral can be very bad depending on the appliance, as described already elsewhere.
Why?
Why?
No it’s bi-winning
I would argue that neither of the plugs shown in the picture nor those mentioned by others are the best.
Ignoring current adoption, I think that IEC 60906-1 is the best plug. It is very similar to the Swiss plug and was intended to, at least in the EU, replace other plugs. It has quite a few advantages over the other plugs. It is rated at 16 A, has a compact form factor, is polarised, and has almost all the common protections except fuses (which are pretty much useless anyway). Currently it only is used in South Africa without major changes to the plug.
Compared to the Schuko (Type F):
- Much smaller. You can fit three plugs in the same space as a single Schuko plug (similar to Swiss triple outlets).
- It takes less force to plug in. Above 2.5A, Schuko plugs require a lot of force to plug in and pull out. To some extent, this is actually good for safety, but I would argue that, in the case of Schuko plugs at least, it’s too much
- It is also easier to plug in without seeing the plug since it isn’t round. Everyone who has tried to plug in a Schuko plug without seeing the holes knows how difficult it is
- It’s polarised/directional. In some very specific cases, there is a security advantage to using a polarised plug, but I think it’s also a hassle to only be able to plug in a plug one direction. It also fits Europlugs (the thin, small plugs with only two pins that are very common in Europe, e.g. on phone chargers)
Compared to (Typ G)):
- Wayyy smaller
- Not a stepping hazard
- Rated for 16A (instead of 13 A)
- No Fuse (Again, pretty unecessary)
Regarding three-phase power, I would argue that Swiss type 15 (10A) and type 25 (16A) plugs are the best. These are really cool because while beeing the same size as Schuko (Typ F) plugs, they can transfer three-phase power (so 11 kW; 230 V / 16A on all three phases). They also fit standard Swiss single-phase and Euro plugs. This makes plugging in large appliances like electric stoves much easier than in other countries.
I would find it quite cool if most countries switched to one common plug, and I think IEC 60906-1 would be best for that. It would also be possible to build hybrid sockets for many common plugs during the transition phase.
Swiss Type J, because you can have three of them, taking up no more space than one German or French plug.
