• ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works
          317·
          10 个月前

          Glass of wine with dinner is 100% safe, if not beneficial.

          People who are addicted or abusing need to check themselves regardless of the psychoactive drug they choose, and stop pretending it matters if their are other worse drugs or not.

          • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
            7·
            10 个月前

            Not beneficial, both your comment and your attempt at rationalizing use of booze. In excess, both are bad. A trite truism.

            The point, which hasn’t changed, is that it takes a lot more smoking to cause damage equivalent to what booze causes, even in small amounts.

            I’ll also remind you, this whole thread is a response to a silly meme about boozehounds laughing at potheads.

        • ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works
          315·
          10 个月前

          Is being able to die the only variable? Seems like a comparison of only the extreme.

          Having a few glasses of wine a week with food is fine. Harmless even. Smoking a joint from time to time is fine. Harmless even.

          Being dependent on any psychoactive is harmful to one’s mental health regardless.

          I wouldn’t want to be a stoner or an alcoholic. And the fact that one daily addiction might be less harmful, by some metric, is meaningless cope.

          You’re more likely to die walking down the street than you are while gambling. Guess gambling is a fine addiction, the safest addiction even, while walking is bad habit.

          • smooth_tea@lemmy.world
            2·
            10 个月前

            No level of alcohol consumption is safe when it comes to human health, according to a WHO statement released in January, 2023. The data behind this dire warning come from a 2021 study that estimated the number of incident cancers attributable to alcohol consumption in the EU in 2017—light to moderate drinking (1–2 drinks per day) was responsible for 23 300 new cases of cancer. New Canadian guidelines take a strong stance too, suggesting that any more than two drinks per week puts your health at risk. Does this mean the days of safely enjoying a tipple are officially behind us?

            https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(23)00073-5/fulltext#:~:text=23)00073%2D5-,Alcohol%20and%20health%3A%20all%2C%20none,%2C%20or%20somewhere%20in%2Dbetween%3F&text=No%20level%20of%20alcohol%20consumption,statement%20released%20in%20January%2C%202023.

            • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
              1·
              10 个月前

              Ok, point taken but who the fuck fills out those medical surveys correctly. The only time I ever could is when I would consistently smoke a pack a day. I’m not fucking tracking how many times I have a drink and certainly am not consistent about drinking from month to month.

      • RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
        5010·
        10 个月前

        Hey cope, thanks for the reply. Consider how we use alcohol to make things like turkey, pork etc tender. Alcohol breaks down fibrous connective tissue, so your bourbon-bbq pulled pork is especially soft and succulent the longer it’s been marinated.

        Now, consider what happens in your body. A toxic solvent agent reaching all corners of your body, vs an irritating cloud of ash which gets trapped in your alveoli. Neither is good, but evidence strongly suggests that it’s harder to hurt yourself with flower vs booze.

        For the record, I partake in both on occasion, but I definitely think alcohol is worse for me, personally. Everybody’s different.

        There’s a lot of stuff on pubmed, here’s a quick one on lung hazards from cannabis: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32285993/

        • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
          35·
          10 个月前

          Agree. I work in an ICU and see the effects of alcohol and tobacco CONSTANTLY. I’ve seen a serious problem from cannabis once.

                • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.one
                  61·
                  10 个月前

                  Bad take, considering how helpful cannabis can be to those who use it, how little evidence there is to show that it drastically increases one’s risk of heart disease, and how many substances we consume with far worse side effects (e.g., SSRIs, aspirin, acetaminophen, etc.)

                  On the other hand, alcohol has no benefits when taken internally.

            • Styxia@lemmy.world
              5·
              10 个月前

              From the health.com link that references this article includes edibles as a risk vector.

              Previous studies have suggested that tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the molecule responsible for the psychoactive effects of cannabis, acts on receptors that are found in the central nervous system and in the heart and blood vessels. This interaction between THC and blood vessels may provide a pathway for cannabis to promote inflammation and the buildup of plaque, ultimately leading to CAD. The same effects would not necessarily be expected with the use of cannabidiol (CBD), another active ingredient in cannabis and hemp that is commonly extracted for products that do not contain THC.

              So you are indeed correct. To a point. The ICU observation doesn’t minimize the risks of cannabis but provides a perspective on the prevalence of the issue, and the tone in your responses is likely behind the downvotes you are lamenting.

              Regardless, thank you for sharing the links, they were helpful.

            • retrieval4558@mander.xyz
              3·
              10 个月前

              It’s very possible we haven’t learned to recognize them. (although that fact also implies that the effects are subtle, doesn’t it?)

              Thank you for the links. I didn’t have time to review them all in detail but I did take the time to find the study that Forbes was referring to ( because a sample size that big is very interesting, even if it was just a population study.

              Their inclusion criteria were people who had Cannabis Use Disorder documented on their chart compared to statistically matched people who did not. They tried to control for socioeconomic factors.

              In my opinion, it’s worth noting that people who end up with that chart diagnosis are going to be on the heavier end of users, as the majority of people who use pot don’t report it to their doctors nor end up in the EDs with cannabis related complaints.

              In comparing the two populations, they found that the ABSOLUTE RISK (not relative risk) of adverse cardiovascular events was increased by 0.9%. Notable limitations to the study include that they don’t know exactly how much cannabis each person was using, they couldn’t fully control for tobacco use, and (imo) the exclusion of people with previous cardiovascular events was limited to a 2 year lookback, which may be a bit limiting.

              So the conclusions we can draw from this is “within a population of the heaviest cannabis users with greater than average healthcare exposure, risk of CVD goes up by less than a percent.”

              I’m totally willing to believe that it presents some risk- I just think it’s more likely to be even less of a factor (or at least in the same ballpark) in the development of CVD than things like diet and exercise.

              Comparing this study to some established numbers on tobacco can be helpful here. A quick search on the medical database UpToDate showed me some data suggesting that in heavy smokers, the risk of CVD was 600% greater (relative risk), which is 10 times higher than the 60% relative risk increase that we saw in the cannabis study.

              https://doi.org/10.1111/add.16337 cannabis study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8565161/ tobacco study

              • RubberElectrons@lemmy.ml
                1·
                10 个月前

                This is great, thanks for the info.

                I’m not changing my opinion on my stance, but it’s nice to see other people genuinely interested in the conversation.

        • XpeeN@sopuli.xyz
          3·
          10 个月前

          It’s because of combustion tho, right? using a dry herb vaporizer will prevent that then

          • tacosplease@lemmy.world
            4·
            10 个月前

            People on YouTube with a plastic bottle and a bicycle pump. You pressurize a bottle with a little bit of liquor and then depressurize it very quickly. That makes a vapor that can be inhaled and actually gets you drunk.

            • GiveMemes@jlai.lu
              1·
              10 个月前

              You could also drop ethanol in a dab rig but any method of ‘smoking’ alcohol is incredibly dangerous as it gets you really fucked up really fast and can lead to alcohol poisoning with only minor fuckups. Also it’s going to hit way harder and not last as long because it’s going straight into the blood vs being absorbed by the stomach

      • player2@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        12·
        10 个月前

        Check out dry herb vaping, the safest way to “smoke” weed without combustion. Still not perfect but way better in every way.

  • Melkath@kbin.social
    88·
    10 个月前

    My gainfully employed alcoholic stoner ass listening to the target shift lead tell me that all alcoholics and stoners are unemployed.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
      171·
      10 个月前

      That’s two of the reasons why drug testing is bullshit:

      A) Alcohol isn’t considered a part of it and you can fail a drug test if you had weed a week ago but pass if you got drunk before pissing in the cup.

      and

      B) If you can do your job efficiently, who cares what substances you take? If someone shows up to work drunk or high and can’t do their job, by all means, fire them. But so many people do their work just fine drunk or high.

  • Sylvartas@lemmy.world
    593·
    10 个月前

    What does being employed have to do with anything here ? Leeches landlords can be alcoholics/stoners, high functioning alcoholics are a thing, and I know a shit ton of people who can do their job perfectly fine while stoned

  • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
    5312·
    10 个月前

    When your quality depends on wether you are a paid slave or not. I like the subtle capitalism

    To be fair some of the drunks/stoners I’ve met have been better people than many who have a job.

    • Moneo@lemmy.world
      98·
      10 个月前

      Guh why are so many of the anti-work crowd so obnoxious. You’re knee-capping the fucking movement.

  • 5in1k@lemm.ee
    302·
    10 个月前

    What’s with all the teetotalers and squares here? Like a dumbass dare meeting.

  • Dr. Moose@lemmy.worldEnglish
    231·
    10 个月前

    I’m a fully functional stoner (full stack dev) living in a tropical country full of drinkers. It’s not the same. I can’t imagine functioning on alcohol and honestly never saw anyone succeed though there are a lot of successful stoners here. It’s a different drug though cannabis will definitely impact your performance and motivation so you have to plan accordingly which can be tough but totally doable.

    • CADmonkey@lemmy.world
      4·
      10 个月前

      I’m a mechanical draftsman. The parts I model keep huge installations, that society depends on, functioning. And a few times a week, I get nice and high with the wife. I’ve known entirely too many functional stoners, it’s so common that I would almost say everyone knows one somewhere.

  • riodoro1@lemmy.world
    253·
    10 个月前

    I guess if they were made to hold piss for mister bezos that would make them respectable