I came here around the time the rif app shut down, and the general vibe I get from this place is much more negative than when I joined. Is Lemmy growing more toxic or is it just my imagination?
There has been a noticeable uptick in new rightist accounts lately.
Instead of blocking people, I tag the bad actors in Voyager and have noticed that most of the toxicity comes from the same small group of specific people.
I’ve recently noticed a lot of new accounts which post a whole series of news articles and then get deleted. Notot fake news or conspiracies but mostly reputable sites. No idea what’s going on there.
Check your communities, and what instances they’re on. Not all are created equal. lemmy.ml tends to be pretty wacko unless you’re of their particular ideological alignment, lemmy.world is very very large and thus has a very very large number of obnoxious shitheads compared to other instances. On the other hand, beehaw.org is intentionally and pathologically positive. I also find lemmy.ca quite friendly, though I might be biased.
Can confirm some asshole on .ml is chasing around my comments wasting both our time, isn’t that right mistermodal, you incel loser.
Lemmy users are much more entrenched ideologically than an average layman. We all have strong opinions and it can get pretty heated. I avoid posting inflammatory posturing if I’m self aware enough. But I’m just as human and fallible as the rest.
And they think the real world is reflective of what we talk about here. It’s truly bizarre. I’m terminally online, unemployed ATM, but I still get there’s an outside world.
Take all the Trump voter hate for example. Do they not truly understand how under and misinformed most Americans are? Watch Mamdami interview Trump voters in NYC. Not ONE was what we picture as MAGA.
Also, since Trump 1.0, people refuse to talk politics. We’re at a party last month and talking about my new, weird, .22 rifle. I started to bring up a thing in the Big Beautiful Bill that was on-topic and the only thing I find decent in it. “NO. We’re not talking politics.” “I’m NOT. I’m talking about one thing I think is cool and will help gun owners.” Jesus. Now we gotta dance on eggshells.
Do they not truly understand how under and misinformed most Americans are?
Um, that’s exactly why we are pissed off at them. It’s easier than ever to be informed yet people act like it’s harder, somehow. Pretty fucking enraging.
In my experience, no one but trumpers refuse to talk politics. And it’s because they want to remain actively ignorant. Can’t have anyone revealing the giant holes in their fucked worldview. You might turn them trans, after all.
Yeah, the total distraction of community and third-places is I think the #1 cause of the division of political discourse, but second is that people refuse to engage with other human beings on the topic. They watch TV or browse online, and they get one extremely biased view of the world. They don’t share it with other people where they could get other points of view.
It used to be people would get the paper and talk about it with each other, but that’s taboo now. You take it to an online community who all agree with you. There’s a reason why the infamous Thanksgiving family gathering caused strife. It’s because people were actually having discussions and disagreements. Disagreement is healthy, but people seem allergic to it now.
Well, many of us are on the spectrum whether that be ADD, ADHD, Asperger’s, or some other form of autism. Helps us to be highly technical and computer savvy, doesn’t help so much with attempting to reframe “right and wrong,” for most of us.
Unfortunately the very entrenchment, ideologically speaking, that these particular “character traits” cause most of us to have, are being celebrated as “immunity to propaganda” in the media. The reality is that we have an innate sense of right and wrong, and that shit can get skewed all over the place in your formative years. The only remedy I have seen for this is the person intentionally exposing themselves to other cultures.
lemmy.world is very very large and thus has a very very large number of obnoxious shitheads
Yeah? Yeah, you think so? Obnoxious? Yeah? You sayin’ there’s obnoxious shitheads round these parts? That what you’re sayin’? Just wanna be clear! Well you’re wrong! Lemmy.World isn’t large at all. The whole fediverse combined isn’t very large! Not like my penis! Can’t believe you said Lemmy.World is full of obnoxious shitheads! Why would you think that? Can I have $20? Your mom gave me $20! Heyyyoooo!!!
Is lemmy.ml is the second largest instance? Or at least rapidly growing? That would explain why it feels this way.
.ml is the instance run by the developers of the Lemmy fediiverse software, and they themselves are tankies. Do with that information what you will.
Do with that information what you will
Hey, some of us made our accounts when this was the Lemmy instance.
o7
Some of us joined much later when the apicalypse happened.
I see a lot more assholes from .world and .shtjstwrks
.ML peeps are either chill or really cringe depending on how militant they are.
It’s just .works, really.
Hi 👋
.ml stands for Marxist\Lenin afaik. And the mods\admins take it very seriously.
I wouldn’t call beehaw pathologically positive. They just seem to bee some very nice people that caught to create a community of nice people. It’s not a pathology, it’s a common understanding.
Check your communities, and what instances they’re on. Not all are created equal. lemmy.ml tends to be pretty wacko
“Hey y’all, anyone feeling hostility on Lemmy”
“Yeah, let me tell you what, fuck those fuckers over there. They fucking suck and I hope they rot.”
Like, how do you not immediately block everyone on lemmy.ca after reading this hate?
I also find lemmy.ca quite friendly,
Sure, if you ignore the assholes who pop into other communities to take a colossal shit on them.
Bro they just said “tends to be pretty wacko”
That’s like, really mild. You might need to get some thicker skin.
The irony of your stupidity and judgement in that post is hilarious.
For sure. I posted content on selfhosted for the first time and got called a “filthy boomer” because it was a screenshot, then people basically told me to grow thicker skin went I complained. Why be better than reddit huh? Guess people just want reddit 2.0
I would actually compare it to Slashdot 3.0, but your sentiment stands.
“Why can’t everyone just be nice to each other all the time” is what lead us to where we are.
I’m not arguing for being an asshole but when you force everyone to be kind all the time online you get people that are empowered to and motivated to wrap up abhorrent shit in a pleasing package. Racist dog whistles, selfish political propaganda, etc.
I’m not saying that applies here but I DO think it’s important that people are allowed to be assholes online. The internet really started its descent when people started putting bubble wrap on everything.
You’re free to engage or not to.
People have become so used to echo chambers and safe spaces that they forget what things were like when they didn’t exist. And it was better.
You SHOULD be encountering assholes online and encountering opinions you disagree with regularly, because that is the real the world.
Nice to see another person who understands this. They want their social media experience to not make them feel anything negative, and loves their bubble where everyone agrees with them, despite it being a false, curated, forced experience.
When someone writes something they dont agree with, they go into keyboard warrior mode and either tries to put the person down with downvoting and insults, or mod reporting, which is similar to running to dad and crying about someone being bad.
Its like people refuse to grow up today. Argue for your opinion, stop censoring and pushing down opinions you dont agree with.
Exactly.
Being exposed to people that believe differently than you challenges your own beliefs, and theirs.
When women started opening about the bullshit they dealt with, a lot of people listened. Some didn’t, but a lot of people did. Some men said “hey, you know, now that you mention it, there’s some kind of fucked up shit about being a guy, too”.
Anyone that had ever engaged with any real feminist theory or any facet of gender studies said: you’re absolutely right. Everyone else completely drowned them out.
The internet around that time largely had the response of “shut up, the women are talking”. Not all of it, not everyone, but it was very common.
Some men kept patiently listening, others stopped listening and started talking, others stopped listening, got angry, and started yelling. Some were never listening at all.
Now we have hordes of young misogynistic racist shitheels who may have been receptive to other points of view once but are now so firmly entrenched in their shiftiness it may never change. And they’ve found nice cozy places to whip their impotent rage into a society-destroying frenzy. It festered in critical mass, quietly, until it built up a level where it could burst open like a cyst.
The lesson here has nothing to do with gender, but highlights the importance of LISTENING TO PEOPLE, and being exposed to their viewpoints while exposing them to yours. Even the most vocal, selfish, pigheaded, racist conservative has legitimate concerns driving some of their shittiness: fear of uncertainty over the future, economic uncertainty, poverty, lack of education, fear of death. None of these things validate the shittiness but they do explain and they’re the levers by which these views change.
And I totally disagree with that narrative.
Because in my experience I listened, but then was guilty of the crime of pre-rape. And then i stopped listening to feminists. Being male and doing anything male-coded was a crime to them. Popular feminism decided men were evil. Full stop.
then 10 years later… many of those very same feminists are now preaching 1950s subordination to their husband and God and many are of them anti-trans advocates. Every feminist I went to grad school with became everything she claimed to hate in her 20s. And icing on the cake, they would inherent tons of money from their parents and start lecturing others to grow up and work hard like they did…
wtf is ‘real’ feminist theory, btw? feminist theory has 100s of flavors.
Sure, they may have decided men are evil but so what. We arent, obviously. Men are actually much nicer to eachother than women are.
Let them talk, its a good warning signal who has air in their head and who has some brains.
FWIW my entire life i’ve known people who do this shit IRL. My college campus was rife with people like this.
My daily life is also regularly full of people like this.
I mean honestly filthy boomer to a screenshot is kind of hilarious.
Maybe they’re not telling us that the screenshot was taken with a Nokia and sent to email over their sms to email bridge?
Was a simple screenshot of a Discord announcement since they didnt have any links
Yeah, I’m gonna stop taking screenshots and use an analogue camera to capture my screen, then run to the photo printing shop, stop by the hobby store for some tracking paper, and track the photo. Scan that bad boy, and Bob’s your uncle!
Now what would I then be called by these keyboard warriors?
I noticed it a few months ago. It feels like a sudden, inorganic shift. Either all the good people have trickled off to a better basin, or someone or something has influenced Lemmy users
Pretty sure Lemmy got on the influence bot radar some few months ago. Comments are now deeply negative and constantly drumming the 2FA and guillotine remedies to every complaint. Interactions outside of this kind of content I still find Lemmy users to be magnitudes higher quality than Reddit.
Bots warning us about using better account security sounds pretty wholesome actually
Everyone should keep in mind: Besides the darkened tone of the world seeping into nearly everything, this place is probably crawling with shit-stirrers of a slightly subtler flavor than your typical obnoxious troll.
This effect might be from lemmy users in general hating everything about the world right now, or it might be the work of bots and/or illicitly paid humans fronting as the “general left.” The type that reflects your viewpoints pretty well but injects their comments with a little something extra, inflaming you or depressing more than what seems reasonable, maybe pushing you a little closer to the edge, whatever that edge may be.
We (or at least I) have no idea how much astroturfing is happening in the comments. It’s probably best to take anything that seems peculiarly provocative with a grain of salad.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Are you aware that there are people in this world that have a severe medical condition which causes them to be that way? My mother for instance is one of those people. She is a truck driver that has bad knees and a bad back from driving the truck but you probably do not care about that case either. Oh well I am not one of those people I am 6’4" 245lbs and I exercise every day. I would love to see you say something like to my mother in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someones face. Just my thought.What do you think. Oh I am sorry you probably do not have a brain. I on the other hand will be happy to buy you a plane ticket to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know.
What the fuck did you just say about the God Emperor of Mankind, you little heretic? I´ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Space Marines, and I´ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Chaos, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in Plasma Warfare and I´m the top Inquistor in the entire Imperium. You are nothing to me, but just another Xeno scum. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of wich has never been seen before on Terra, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that heretic rambling to me? Think again, fucker. As we speak,I am contacting my secret network of Vindicare Assasins across the Emperium, and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You´re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that´s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in CQC, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Imperium of Man, and I will use it to it´s full extent to wipe your miserable ass of the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have know what unholy retribuition you little ‘‘clever’’ heresy was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn ´t, you didn´t, and now you´re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you, and you will drown in it. You´re fucking dead, heretic. Extermanatus upon your hive world.
Yeah the news are triggering the worst instincts of some users who tend to lash out alot, and some trolls might be taking advantage of that
Ugh. I understand being a bit on edge in these dark times, but lashing out at people on your side doesn’t help anything.
People are desperately combing through comments, looking for something to be outraged about. That’s what happens in echo chambers - when the outgroup isn’t around to be attacked, people start eating their own. It turns into this insane purity spiral where nobody is ever good enough.
I have noticed more people inferring things from a small part of a reply and rather than read and try to understand it, they insted get upset about it and reply back about what they think the op said.
Same with going off the headlines. I am well aware that we lose 90%+ of communication over text, but damn, some of these fucking people. You have to learn to couch your comment in such a way that even obvious sarcasm and the like is obvious.
To all those joking about being autists and not getting social clues, I see you.
This has been a consistent issue I have seen more on Lemmy over Reddit since day one, TBH.
No it hasn’t! That’s just what they want you to believe! You heard nothing! Make him repent Asmodai!
OF ALL THE WATCHERS IN THE ROCK WHY DID I GET ONE THAT TALKS‽‽‽
It’s what comes with more users. As people you don’t know start writing in styles you’ve only seen parroting arguments you disagree with, the urge to shut things down increases.
Plus, there ends up being more stuff to read in the same amount of time, which leads to shallower reading to cover it all.
yep.
i will write out three paragraphs… get multiple replies about like three words I said that are taken totally out of context.
i’d say trolls/bots… but i know way too many people IRL who do the very same thing. they are just stupid assholes looking to cause drama to puff up themselves as ‘outing’ everyone as evil/bad because they are ‘warriors’ for justice. their entire existing is all about inflating their own ego and being willfully ignorant and their primary hobby in life is being ‘offended’ by anything/everything.
what i can’t get is why people like being around people like this… but they do for some reason.
Same with going off the headlines. I am well aware that we lose 90%+ of communication over text, but damn, some of these fucking people. You have to learn to couch your comment in such a way that even obvious sarcasm and the like is obvious.
No. Fuck you.
/s
Yes, but sometimes I wonder if it is just the nature of what happens when a social media network grows large. I did observe how some subreddits instantly get more toxic as they grow bigger too
… On the other hand though, coincidentally I did see some very recent comments that are decidedly more right-wing than the general Lemmy userbase. I personally try not to judge ppl’s political orientation but I do wonder if there’s something weird going on
ever IRL hobby/group i ever did went from a cool chill group to being full of rabid assholes once it got ‘popular’. as in… people heard it was ‘cool’ and wanted to join because they want to be ‘cool’. as soon as people are doing something for status/image and not because they actually enjoy/love it… that’s when the toxicity starts. because the cool people are the insecure shallow types who need to crap on anyone who is ‘uncool’.
status chasing is the root of a lot of it, imo.
No. Why? Are you accusing me of something? Are you threatening me??
/s
Go fuck yourself!
well have you noticed (waves at everything) in the world?
There are trolls. Not as many as other places, but we have them.
Once we isolate key people, we look for people we know are in their upstream – people that they read posts from, but who themselves are less influential. (This uses the same social media graph built before.) We then either start flame wars with bots to derail the conversations that are influencing influential people (think nonsense reddit posts about conspiracies that sound like Markov chains of nonsense other people have said), or else send off specific tasks for sockpuppets (changing this wording of an idea here; cause an ideological split there; etc).
The goal is to keep opinions we don’t want fragmented and from coalescing in to a single voice for long enough that the memes we do want can, at which points they’ve gotten a head start on going viral and tend to capture a larger-than-otherwise share of media attention.
(All of the stuff above is basically the “standard” for online PR (usually farmed out to an LLC with a generic name working for the marketing firm contracted by the big firm; deniability is a word frequently said), once you’re above a certain size.)
from Bannon:
“The opposition party is the media,” Steve Bannon, who helped run Trump’s 2016 campaign, told PBS Frontline five years ago. “And the media can only — because they’re dumb and they’re lazy — they can only focus on one thing at a time.”
So the solution, per Bannon? Overwhelm them.
“All we have to do is flood the zone,” he said. “Every day we hit them with three things. They’ll bite on one, and we’ll get all of our stuff done, bang, bang, bang. These guys will never — will never be able to recover. But we’ve got to start with muzzle velocity.”
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/07/nx-s1-5289315/trump-week-in-review
The best defense is to call them out on it and then walk away. They’ll downvote the shit out of you, but who tf cares about upvotes and downvotes. If someone is getting downvoted heavily, read what they said carefully before piling on.
I seriously doubt lemmy is under that sort of concerted, planned attack. There are only so many bot handlers and the like and they aren’t wasting time here.
Lol, I want to live in your world.
You honestly think the fascists and oligarchs are aiming for lemmy? We’re not a blip, not even a sparrow, on the social media radar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_platforms_with_at_least_100_million_active_users
Say I’m paying you to go out there and influence people. I’d fire you if you came back and said you hit lemmy with your time and my money.
How many people do you know IRL that have even heard of lemmy?!
Sometimes it’s not just the numbers but who those numbers are. Depending on what you’re trying to achieve, influencing all the techy Linux nerds that seem to make up Lemmy might be more helpful than just blowing into the wind for as many as possible on Twitter or whatever.
I’ve got no data either way on this, just some basic social engineering training for work.
Agreed on influencing say influencers (e.g. decision makers in corporate IT for example who presumably would be somewhere on here)
Can’t see anyone bothering with lemmy’s pathetic user count, not for a few years at least. Like I said, were I paying you for social engineering, I’d be more than disappointed if you went after us.
Maybe your training taught you something I don’t know? If you’re talking about social engineering in the context of IT, I get that bit, taught classes on it myself.
It’s not always about the user count though. It’s about your end goals. There’s two types of social engineering. Mass and targeted. You’re focusing on the mass social engineering.
Say you want specific information on how Crowdstrike works. You could launch a massive social engineering campaign on Twitter but if you don’t catch any of the engineers who work at Crowdstrike then what’s the point? You just spent all that money for nothing. It would be better to find where those engineers socialize online and try to inject yourself there, doesn’t matter the size of that community and it could very well be on Lemmy in one of the programmer communities.
Now if you want to convince the entire world of something then yeah, focus on the big user counts, don’t worry about the small fry communities. It’s all about your end goal.
I love the civility of this exchange. It’s why I left reddit. Thanks!
I used to think like that until on the e-mail address I had for my lemmy.world account (an account which I left following that) I started getting e-mails in my native language from an organisation based in Tel-Aviv inviting me to attent a “learn about Israel” online course.
This was when I was already very vocal about the actions of Israel in Gaza.
That e-mail wasn’t public and as far as I know only server Admins have access to that stuff.
When the largest Lemmy instance is infiltrated at the Admin level by state actors (and that’s also very clearly the case for Moderation in the main forums there, as reflected by their moderation actions with even one Moderator of the news forum being very openly Zionist in his posts elsewhere), the idea that there are bots and sockpuppets around in Lemmy trying to shift opinions for the benefit of nations and even large political forces, isn’t exactly outrageous.
I mean, if I remember it correctly the budget of Israel’s Hasbara ops is somewhere around $1 billion a year, so plenty of money to have a few people at least part time trying to influence a place with maybe a few hundred thousand people, like Lemmy.
From personal experience, this is definitely untrue.
I don’t know that I’ve noticed a real uptick. But in the past couple weeks I have noticed a few ridiculous right wingers and I blocked most of them since seeing their bullshit is bad for my mental health.
Yeah maga place looks like it’s up to 21 idiots sharing a brain cell now, whereas I think it was 12 a couple weeks ago. Wonder if there’s a critical mass for those fucks or if they’ll find lemmy too progressive to stick around. I guess they could just circlejerk on their own instance.
