• wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    81
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Wonderful. Now we have two wars that just happen to rile up needless political grandstanding for the uninvolved to fight over, so we wont have to think about the millions of innocents killed in the fighting.

  • CylonBunny@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    51
    ·
    1 year ago

    We don’t get many declarations of war these days. Usually they are just special military actions, or security operations, or something like that. What makes this different?

    • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      25
      arrow-down
      16
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Probably something about an outright attack against civilians for literally no fucking reason… ya know just “gotta not let them kill us” kinda reasons?

      There’s also a decent chance they actually have some sort of government structure that doesnt allow military spending of certain types without a declaration of war.

      • Jeena@jemmy.jeena.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        Wait, you think there is “no fucking reason” that Hamas exists and is doing what they’re doing?

        • sock@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          what is their goal if not to bring harm to civilians

          they arent powerful enough to fight. some dumbass religious cause doesnt matter because their religion is fake they are fighting for a dick size contest and hamas has a micropenis, yet is still antagonizing.

          i hate israel but frankly hamas is really trying to lose support rn

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Israel is constantly catastrophizing their situation to win sympathy and demonize their enemy. Usually they try to avoid this kind of language because, being the only ones with an organized military, it would be a bad look to be at war with a bunch of refugees. But since they’ve been attacked they’re doing everything they can to paint that attack in the most bombastic terms possible 1) to win sympathy and 2) to justify the military devastation they are about to unleash on a civilian population.

  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    65
    arrow-down
    24
    ·
    1 year ago

    Following our decades-long invasion of Palestine and continually calling for Palestine’s removal and the genocide of the Palestinian people, we are now calling it war.

    • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      Damn, maybe palestine should have accepted the two state plan in 1947 instead of trying to eliminate all Israeli Jews at the time.

      Israel accepted it. Palestine started killing civilians. Then got their asses handed to them repeatedly.

      • bamboo@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        You have to understand though, prior to the UN proposal, it was all just Palestine. Why should the Palestinians have accepted a UN (foreign, primarily western at the time) proposal to give half of their land to a minority who only began immigrating there en masse in the last 50 years? This was the period of decolonization, and while the rest of the Arab world and Africa was gaining their independence, Palestine was just getting a new map drawn on them by their western colonizers.

        It’s easy to say with another 70 years of perspective that it didn’t work out for them, but in 1947 Israel was nothing more than an idea championed by a minority of religious extremists, viewed as terrorists even in the west.

        • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Prior to the UN proposal it was a British territory. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

          Palestine has never existed as an independent state.

          • Dkarma@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Correct. However it was never israels. Can we at least agree on that?

            • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Depends on how long you go back. It was Israel/Judea for over 1000 years before the Arab Conquest forced Jews to be scattered to the winds in the first place.

      • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        Wow, how gracious of israel, with the backing of the most powerful militaries in the world arrayed against a country without significant military allies, to nominally agree to a two-state plan and then for 75 years violate treaties, kill civilians and constantly invade the other state that essentially can’t fight back.

        Super brave of them to constantly show force with the US military backing them.

        I’m sure Israel appreciates you admiring their genocide.

        • sock@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          what if u were israel

          should israel just let palestine attack and have israel intentionally hold back the fact they are much more powerful? if you poke a bear and get mauled do we blame the bear?

          in america we would likely blame the bear but folks dont get consequences now.

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Wow all over the wrong map. No, in American wildlife conservation and training, the wild animal is not blamed because humans have the ability to plan and reason and animals have an extremely limited ability to plan and reason and are practically only able to react.

            You compare Israel to a mindless beast without the ability to plan or reason, ignoring that Israel has been invading Palestine for 75 years, carrying out a obvious territorial expansion “plan” according to their"reason"(I want it and I am stronger than you).

            You’re incorrect that Israel is doing this as mindless reactionaries, But you’re probably making that assumption because as an American you are trained to be reactionary and hold knee-jerk reactions in high regard.

            A bunch of Saudi Arabians bombed your New York! Quick, let’s invade several unrelated countries! How reasonable. What a good plan. 80% approval ratings.

            This declaration of war, if followed through, is a continuation of the systematic territorial invasion and execution of Palestinian civilians that has been going on for most of a century.

            It’s just going to happen faster now.

  • rivermonster@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    It doesn’t matter anyone’s opinion on Isarel or Palestians or Palestine, rhe bottom line is this is likely the end game. The chances of gaza being occupied by anyone much less Palestians is near zero.

    I think chances for the West Bank to survive are still there since they aren’t controlled byHamas and Fatah have collaborated on security with Israel. But I still think hardliners crazies in Israel could successfully expand this to include the west Bank.

    The bottom line is that by committing mass war crimes and crimes against humanity, Hamas has doomed itself and the entire Gaza strip.

    I am NOT weighing in on right or wrong. I personally don’t think there are any innocent governments in this. I’m simply saying that by giving up the high ground and committing these crimes, Gaza has doomed itself, and Israel has enough internationally recognized pretext to end it all.

    • hark@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      Gaza was doomed anyway. The West Bank was also doomed. Any land that the far-right fascists in Israel have their eyes on is doomed because they have the full force of the west backing them (no matter if they pretend to wag their finger at them from time to time) and they’ve got other countries like Egypt and Saudi Arabia backing them. The plan all along was to take the land and it was only a matter of time. GG, enjoy your ethnostate, fascists.

      • FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Enjoy it but the trouble is, we in the US have those assholes occasionally wagging a finger, while scooping every public dollar into buckets to shower on these Israeli assholes while they scream about wokeness and gay folk and trans folk and who’s bathroom is who’s….all the while actively trying to bring about a holy war they think will bring jeebus back or whatever.

        Radical religious terrorism is the thing that will keep us from reaching the stars. We’re not ready for other cultures when we can’t even manage our own

        • Stovetop@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          The US has to side with Israel on an ideological level because it is just as culpable for what it did to the indigenous inhabitants of North America who lived there first.

      • rivermonster@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        Intentionally targeting civilian populations is a war crime. It’s a war crime when Israel has done it, and it’s one now as Hamas (with the help of Iran and Lebbanon) are doing it.

  • spiderkle@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    It’s a shame humanity hasn’t learned more from the last century, this one wasn’t supposed to be a sequel.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      War continues but the scale really is miniscule compared to the 1900s.

      26,000 American soldiers died in 36 days of fighting on Iwo Jima.

      1900 Americans were killed in 20 years in Afghanistan.

      I don’t minimize any deaths here, but the direction the numbers are going in gives me hope for the future, not despair.

        • scarabic@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yes civilian deaths were higher. But military deaths are able to be counted more reliably so they are easier to compare.

          Estimates are that 38 million civilians died in WW2, so there you go. That number is way higher too.

          • Dkarma@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Oh so if you just don’t count civilians your original statement seems true. I’m sure the million dead are consoled by that.

        • ours@lemmy.film
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Nearly half of those are civilians… war sucks no matter how we look at it.

  • Nonameuser678@aussie.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    This seems like a really unevenly weighted war. Israel has nukes and is supported by most of the west. Vengeance and violence are also never a good mix so this will likely get ugly fast. It’ll be interesting to see where the line is, if it exists at all, on how much violence the West will publicly support.

  • Nimbool@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    28
    ·
    1 year ago

    Good! I hope they wipe Gaza off of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and their supporters once and for all.

    • FMT99@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m sure more bombing will solve this problem once and for all. It always worked so well in the past.

    • ubermeisters@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Hey guys while you’re at it do this dude too, since they’re reveling in the death that is to come.